Author Topic: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran  (Read 10998 times)

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« on: April 04, 2009, 01:50:17 PM »
The idea of Iran with nukes would cause the USA heartburn and influence in the ME. 

I suspect the Israeli perspective is punctuated with thoughts of, "How many nukes can we take before Israel is no longer a going concern?"

The author is correct in that the West is doing a whole lot of nothing.  Some (the USA) because we don't want to and others (W Europe) becasue they no longer have the ability or guts.



http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTJiZDJlODE5MDY4ZDdmODE3NWRmNTVmMGUxYjczNjQ=

The Coming Israeli Attack on Iran   [Michael Ledeen]

Richard Beeston, of the London Times, is old enough to remember what happened back in 1981, when Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor. First, an Israeli went around to all the allied countries, warning that somebody had better do something soon. Nobody did. So the Israelis did it by themselves.

Beeston retells that story in the process of warning us that the Israelis have been doing the same thing of late, this time with regard to the Iranian nuclear project. He thinks that the new Israeli government has at least three men who are experienced in dangerous operations. He notes that Israel just attacked an Iranian convoy in Sudan that was headed for Gaza, and the Israeli planes had to fly farther than is required to attack the nuclear facility in Natanz. He concludes by saying that Israel won't attack without at least "tacit American approval," but warns that time is running out.

I can add another piece to his jigsaw puzzle. At the time of the attack on the Iraqi facility, I was Special Adviser to the Secretary of State (the same title that Dennis Ross holds today), and it was quite clear that nobody in the U.S. Government knew that attack was coming. Menachem Begin didn't ask for permission, and while there were some top Americans who were irked that they hadn't received advance warning, I didn't hear anybody say that the Israelis needed our approval, tacit or explicit.

If the Israelis think that Iran is likely to nuke them, I can't imagine why they would feel constrained by American wishes. Good relations aren't a suicide pact, after all. I doubt that the Israelis will ask any such question, in keeping with the old adage, don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer.

It's clear that the "Western world" has no intention of doing anything serious about Iran. I rather suspect that many European countries would be pleased if Israel managed to do effective damage to Iran's nuclear program, and I'm quite sure that many Arab countries would privately cheer the event. I really don't know what the president and his various czars would think, although they would undoubtedly join in the chorus of denunciation.

But none of that really matters if you're Israel, and you are convinced that Iran is very close to removing you from the map.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 02:04:54 PM »
When do people stop writing articles claiming that "An Israeli attack on Iran is forthcoming within N months"?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,712
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 02:17:02 PM »
When do people stop writing articles claiming that "An Israeli attack on Iran is forthcoming within N months"?

When Israel finally attacks Iran?
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,466
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 03:22:12 PM »
The sad thing is that the Iranian people seem to be very friendly.  I watched a bit on late night cable in which what seemed to be a Brit reporter (by his accent) traveled all around Iran.  It's too bad these folks don't have the wherewithall to get out from under the wack jobs that run the place.

On the other hand, look at what we just elected and how we stand by while they bankrupt us with the tacit approval of the MSM.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

agricola

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,248
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 03:38:34 PM »
As an aside, why should "the West" attack Iran?
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 05:06:30 PM »
I remember a while back right after we went into Iraq and talk was about when we'd go into Iran as well I had the pleasure of meeting a fairly well known Iranian guitar player and the subject turned to war with Iraq/Iran. His statement, "Nobody in Iran wants a war with the US." I agree, it's too bad they can't do anything about getting the wack jobs out of the gov there.

On another note, the 3 anti war protesters were on the corner of Main and Center St in Manchester ct again today. One had a sign that said, "Stop BUSH!" Apprently they don't read many papers or watch any TV.  :laugh:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 07:35:09 PM »
As an aside, why should "the West" attack Iran?

Because we MUST operate on the assumption that Iran is about to get a nuke AND wants to use it on Israel.

Doubting the allegations that Iran is within closing distance of a nuclear weapon sufficiently compact to be used as part of a missile warhead AND wants to fight a nuclear war with a country that outguns and outnumbers its military (both of these must be true for an attack on Iran to be justifiable) means you hate Israel. And America. And Jews.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »
Quote
As an aside, why should "the West" attack Iran?

So a nuclear war does not transpire in the Middle East.

Wait a tick . . . Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, all smoking, glowing holes . . . hmmmm, you may be on to something there ag, old boy.  I say, simply splendid. =D
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 07:44:48 PM »
we need to work on techniques for extracting the oil from a place that glows in the dark
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2009, 07:48:34 PM »
Or, in the alternative, we could use our own oil. =D

Nah, we would much rather muck around in The Monkey House. :lol:
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 09:38:56 PM »
we need to work on techniques for extracting the oil from a place that glows in the dark

Well, you'd save a fortune on night lighting.

The cost savings would probably be eaten up by the cost of radioactive shielding, though...
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 10:13:31 PM »
A quick poll:

Who here thinks the world would be a better place with a nuclear-armed Iran?

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,712
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 02:43:51 AM »
More interesting, maybe, but not better.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 05:30:48 AM »
A quick poll:

Who here thinks the world would be a better place with a nuclear-armed Iran?

I for one think you're asking the wrong question.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 07:05:13 AM »
I for one think you're asking the wrong question.
I for one think you, like so many every time the issue comes up, just dodged the question.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2009, 09:27:19 AM »
I for one think you, like so many every time the issue comes up, just dodged the question.

Because the choice isn't "Nuclear Iran/non-nuclear Iran".

The question is:

"Are you willing to risk a full-blown war with Iran, which may escalate to an exchange of chemical and biological weapons, based on what we know of the likelihood that Iran MAY be working on a nuclear weapon?"

Considering the fact I live in the impact zone of said chemical and biological weapns, no, I don't.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2009, 10:05:27 AM »
Why should the west concern itself with Doing Something about Iran when all it has to do is push Israel to the wall and then she will act.

I'll say it this way:  Israel is the US' Cat's Paw in the ME.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2009, 10:21:21 AM »
Considering the fact I live in the impact zone of said chemical and biological weapns, no, I don't.


you will find folks much more willing when its someone elses realestate being trashed. its a tradition.  along with being the only folks to ever use nukes and believing we should therefore ne nuke hall monitor.  and then looking puzzled when everyone doesn't applaud the concept.

i think i just agreed with mb. i'm gonna go  lay down
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2009, 10:35:46 AM »
Well, I guess one would have to break it down logically.

A. Iran is making nukes.

B. Iran just wants everyone to believe their making nukes.

If "A" is true, then either:

 A1. Iran wants to use the nukes. Israel, elsewhere, or give them to third parties to use on Israel elsewhere by proxy.
 A2. Iran does not really want to use the nukes, but wants the power of being able to engage in MAD.
 (And have more immunity to engage in perpetual low-grade proxy warfare with Israel indefinitely.)

If "B" is true, then...

Well I'm not sure what the hell the point of "B" is because you're engaging all the risk of becoming a nuclear power, without the actual benefits of having a nuke.
I promise not to duck.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2009, 10:47:47 AM »
The old nuclear bargaining chip. If you have it, you have it, if you don't, well, they bluff to good effect on the poker star shows too.  =D
Avoid cliches like the plague!

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2009, 06:43:32 PM »
Quote
Because the choice isn't "Nuclear Iran/non-nuclear Iran".

The question is:

"Are you willing to risk a full-blown war with Iran, which may escalate to an exchange of chemical and biological weapons, based on what we know of the likelihood that Iran MAY be working on a nuclear weapon?"

Considering the fact I live in the impact zone of said chemical and biological weapns, no, I don't.
If I were in the impact zone I wouldn't care.  I would much rather deal with Iran before it has nukes, then after.

Quote
you will find folks much more willing when its someone elses realestate being trashed. its a tradition.  along with being the only folks to ever use nukes and believing we should therefore ne nuke hall monitor.  and then looking puzzled when everyone doesn't applaud the concept.
We've also used poison gas, along with most every European country.  We've also all employed torture as a regular form of punishment in our pasts.

Does this mean we should be honky dory with those things to?

Iran is either developing nukes, or doing a damn good job of making everyone think they are.  As just developing them is a good way to get yourself hit first there isn't much to gain by making it look like you are.  If Iran just wanted to egg itself into being smacked around and crying foul for it there are much simpler surer ways that make you look much less like the bad guy.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2009, 06:57:09 PM »
If I were in the impact zone I wouldn't care.

really? many folks in a nuke impact zone are less brave
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 07:30:38 PM »
Quote
If I were in the impact zone I wouldn't care.  I would much rather deal with Iran before it has nukes, then after.

So, Iran may or may not get a nuke, and yet I am supposed to 'not care' about the fact I may get hit by chem weapons, and gamble on the off-chance that it might get a nuke - knowing that Iran ALREADY has chemical weapons and the will to use them? Despite the fact 80% of Israelis do not have gas masks?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 07:38:07 PM »
if you were here you wouldn't care
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Coming Israeli Attack on Iran
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2009, 07:44:26 PM »
Quote
So, Iran may or may not get a nuke, and yet I am supposed to 'not care' about the fact I may get hit by chem weapons, and gamble on the off-chance that it might get a nuke - knowing that Iran ALREADY has chemical weapons and the will to use them? Despite the fact 80% of Israelis do not have gas masks?
You'd rather wait till you are also in a nuke impact zone to deal with it?  Never said it was easy or didn't suck.  Were I in the cross hair I'd much rather deal with it before I started glowing.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.