Author Topic: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court  (Read 10442 times)

Monkeyleg

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2009, 10:26:31 AM »
That's a scary thought, Chris. Here in Wisconsin, driving without a seat belt will soon be an actionable offense. I don't think the feds could pass such a law, but they made actionable seat belt laws a requirement for federal highway dollars.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2009, 07:05:09 PM »

In the past few days several of the "conservative" talking heads have been making noise that Sotamayor may not be as radical/liberal as she has initially been painted, based on her supposed orientation on "the right to life."  Rush said today (6/2/09) that if he could get verification of her stand in favor of "the right to life" he would switch his opinion against to in favor of her confirmation.

This sounds like political strategery to me.  If Limbaugh can convince the left that Sotomayor is pro-life, and that even a man like Limbaugh could support her, then the left will turn on Sotomayor and sabotage her confirmation.

I doubt Limbaugh seriously, literally means that Sotomayor is a good candidate for the Supreme Court justice.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2009, 07:09:48 PM »

That is, until the anti's in Congress start to link federal funding to firearms laws.  Want money for that highway?  Better enact an AWB.  Want money for police officers?  Better ban handguns.  Want federal money for any project, better enact more gun control.  And, since it involves doling out money, and not directly imposing the bans and restrictions, it would fly through the courts with no problems.

Better hope 2A is seen as invidual, folks...
Even assuming the 2nd become a restriction only on the Feds, wouldn't an indirect infringement of RKBA by the Feds be just as illegal as an outright ban?

lupinus

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2009, 07:48:56 PM »
Quote
Even assuming the 2nd become a restriction only on the Feds, wouldn't an indirect infringement of RKBA by the Feds be just as illegal as an outright ban?
If nothing else it would likely make it right back to the court.

Other indirect regulation by the feds (speed limits, etc) isn't a constitutionally protected right.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

longeyes

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2009, 08:36:38 PM »
Sotomayor knows who sent her.  She is not going to buck the Left on abortion; in that she will be an upstanding "Originalist."
"Domari nolo."

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Gowen

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2009, 10:53:03 PM »
Sotomayor knows who sent her.  She is not going to buck the Left on abortion; in that she will be an upstanding "Originalist."

After she gets in, she can be as radically left or right as she pleases.  She's in for life, short of high crimes and misdemeanors.
"That's my hat, I'm the leader!" Napoleon the Bloodhound


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T.O.M.

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 10:26:49 AM »
Even assuming the 2nd become a restriction only on the Feds, wouldn't an indirect infringement of RKBA by the Feds be just as illegal as an outright ban?

I would imagine that SCOTUS would say that the individual states have no right to federal funds.  Feds are putting a condition on the funding measures, and not directly impacting the rights of individuals.  So if the feds put conditions on the receipt of those funds, like the seat belt laws, speed limit laws, etc., and the state chooses to comply to obtain those funds, no problem.  State always have the option of refusing to comply and turn down the moeny.

This may be the biggest nightmare of all.  Imagine being a governor of a state, and you have to choose between adopting gun control measures, which may get you tossed out of office come election day, or you can go on record refusing millions of federal dollars, costing people their jobs, which will likely get you tossed on election day.  Any doubt which way many of these politicians will go, especially in the current economic environment?
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lupinus

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 02:23:49 PM »
Quote
State always have the option of refusing to comply and turn down the moeny.

This may be the biggest nightmare of all.  Imagine being a governor of a state, and you have to choose between adopting gun control measures, which may get you tossed out of office come election day, or you can go on record refusing millions of federal dollars, costing people their jobs, which will likely get you tossed on election day.  Any doubt which way many of these politicians will go, especially in the current economic environment?
I give you the stimulus, the great state of South Carolina, and our governor Mark Sanford.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2009, 06:22:10 PM »
And I'll give you Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker, who turned down Obama's stimulus funds. The unions and the media really railed on him, but he explained that the feds weren't funding anything 100%, and that the additional 20% or so to complete projects would have to come from raising taxes. I think the people were smart enough to see he was right.

T.O.M.

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 09:04:57 AM »
That's two great examples of politicians doing the right thing, no matter what the political fall-out may be.  What about those who don't have that kind of strength of character?
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longeyes

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 10:49:22 AM »
Quote
I would imagine that SCOTUS would say that the individual states have no right to federal funds.  Feds are putting a condition on the funding measures, and not directly impacting the rights of individuals.  So if the feds put conditions on the receipt of those funds, like the seat belt laws, speed limit laws, etc., and the state chooses to comply to obtain those funds, no problem.  State always have the option of refusing to comply and turn down the moeny.

And at what point do the states begin to question the plenary taxation powers of the Federal government, its right to take along with giving?  That is where we are going.  The Feds do not generate any money on their own; it's all coming from "the states" in the end.

***

I notice that SCOTUS let stand, for now, the Chrysler deal, sought by the Executive as required by economic "urgency" (yes, that again).  I guess "urgency" trumps what appeared to some of us as rather critical questions about contract law and property rights that go to the heart of what it means to be a Republic.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »
That's two great examples of politicians doing the right thing, no matter what the political fall-out may be.  What about those who don't have that kind of strength of character?

Maybe the answer is not in politicians? You know, like organizing, and making it known that there are people who will vote AGAINST people who accept the money? And oh, maybe teaching as many people as possible why accepting the money is bad?
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T.O.M.

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2009, 12:11:53 PM »
Maybe the answer is not in politicians? You know, like organizing, and making it known that there are people who will vote AGAINST people who accept the money? And oh, maybe teaching as many people as possible why accepting the money is bad?

Teaching people that taking the money is bad sounds much like a task worthy of Sisyphus.  All too often when I attend public meetings about financing anything from the school band to new equipment for the little league to equipment for the SWAT team to juvenile justice programs, it seems to me that the first response out of anyone's mouth is "what about federal money/federal grants?"  Want a new bat for the baseball team?  Apply for federal money.  SWAT team needs a new breeching shield?  Write a federal grant.  Want more jail space for delinquent kids?  There's a matching funds federal program.

And, for many people, they see federal dollars as job opportunites and food on teh family table, especially in areas of the country like where I work.  With many of the cuts made by businesses, the manufacturing jobs are taking hits, and many of these people see something, like Ted Strickland's plan on using federal funds to build a high spped rail system from Cincinnati through Columbus to Cleveland, as a great job opportunity.  I can't fault anyone who wants to work to pay their bills, but why on Earth do we need high spped rails from Cinci to Cleveland?  Yet federal dollars may be available for the program, so then it's okay.

Federal money has in many ways become like pharmacutical pain killers.  THey can really help when you need them, but they can become addictive.
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longeyes

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2009, 01:24:26 PM »
Try heroin, it's a better analogy.  We're in the middle of a cultural OD.
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zahc

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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2009, 02:40:30 PM »
Maybe just a binge. Unfortunately we can see from our neighbors in Europe that we have a long ways to fall before OD status is achieved.
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Re: Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2009, 03:24:35 PM »
Maybe just a binge. Unfortunately we can see from our neighbors in Europe that we have a long ways to fall before OD status is achieved.

Those societies are still functioning.  Not to the level of liberty we would so desire for ourselves, but there hasn't been some monumental breakdown of western civilization in Europe.  Do I want us to be like them?  No, and we continue to have an avenue to prevent that.
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