Author Topic: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly  (Read 21007 times)

Uncle Bubba

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Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« on: July 23, 2009, 12:04:53 PM »

Following closely behind the tale we've been discussing of the police officer who showed his ass and got away with it comes this one of a police officer who did his job properly and is being publicly vilified for it, and may well be hung out to dry to appease the race-baiters and their ilk. Even the President has weighed in, making tha above statement. Drudge Report and Fox News are leading with the story, but to my utter amazement CNN has it listed third. Lots of stories to choose from out there so I'll just hit the "high" spots:

Police receive a call of a possible break-in. First on the scene is a white officer who finds a black man inside the house, and asks if he lives there. Man says he does. Officer asks for I.D. as proof of residence and man refuses and begins to loudly berate officer, calling him a racist, and says, "This is what happens to a black man in America!" Man continues to shout and berate police and refuses to cooperate so is arrested for disorderly conduct. The arrested man turns out to beHenry Louis Gates, Jr., a prominent professor of "Black Studies" at a very prestigious university. The media circus begins.


I related a story here not long ago where I'd been in a situation akin to that. The local police had set up a fishing expedition license/DUI check roadblock just below my house. When I backed into my driveway (as was my habit then) an officer pulled up, got out, and asked if I lived there. I said I did and he asked for my I.D. I gave him my license and told him I'd just moved in recently and hadn't had the address changed on it. He asked for a bill or some mailed correspondence that showed my name and that address. I invited him in while I looked for such, found one, he took a look at it, said, "Thank you, Mr. S----." and returned to his patrol car.

From the police report (taken with a grain of salt because of the "thin blue line" behavior we've discussed in the other thread) and interviews of friends and neighbors of the officer, and interviews of people who witnessed the incident, the officer knows his job and did it properly. That cuts no ice with the race pimps, however, since Gates is "...one of the foremost authorities on race in America." as one reporter said it. I've noted that every news story has said that the officer "demanded" identification from Gates. Having been part of and/or witness to many situations where police wanted someone to show I.D. I can say that almost without exception, and unless the situation is so volatile that there's no time for niceties, the police will ask for I.D., at least civilly if not politely, more than once before the gloves come off, so to speak, and they begin to make demands and issue orders.

It's ridiculous that a man who is by all early accounts a damn good cop may well have his job taken away from him, or may have to leave it on his own hook, because racist, prejudiced, bigots accuse him of having the shortcomings they refuse to admit in themselves.

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ilbob

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 12:10:48 PM »
Papieren bitte!

There are various stories circulating about what actually happened.

The two important issues that are pretty consistent in the stories are:

1. The guy did show ID that proved he lived in the home.

2. The cop arrested him knowing the guy was probably the resident, having seen the ID.

Thats pretty much the definition of acting stupidly. Just because you can get away with doing something, does not make it a good idea to do so.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 12:37:38 PM by Mike Irwin »
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 12:29:22 PM »
So what if he eventually showed I.D. and did live there?


He wasn't arrested for not showing I.D., he was arrested for Disorderly Conduct. He intially refused to show I.D. and almost immediately began to shout and berate the cop. When Gates finally did show I.D. and the cop tried to leave, Gates followed him, screaming and ranting about racists in America and threatening the cops with his fame and position (police report and witnesses say Gates shouted several times, "You don't know who you're messing with!")

One of Gates's complaints is that the cop "...walked into [his] house without [his] permission." When  the police get a call of a possible break-in and arrive to find the door open and someone inside, of course they're going to walk in. How is the cop supposed to know, initially and when the person inside refuses to identify himself in any way, that that person is the resident?




« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 12:36:20 PM by Mike Irwin »
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K Frame

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 12:37:22 PM »
Guys, keep the emotionally motivated cursing to a minimum.



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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 12:39:14 PM »
Two (at least) very different accounts - I don't know which one to believe.

A pity there's no dashcam video available . . .

Edited to add:
They guy was described as " . . . a prominent professor of "Black Studies" at a very prestigious university." 

Black studies?

This is on a par with nonsense like "Women's Studies" or "Gay Studies" . . . silly stuff for people who can't (or won't) hack it in something challenging, like the sciences, mathematics, law, medicine, etc., or even in some traditional "soft" subjects like history & foreign language.

So it's not as if he was a genuine professor teaching a subject that required genuine intellectual exertion.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 03:02:38 PM by HankB »
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Bob F.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 12:40:47 PM »
What Uncle Bubba said plus: What the hell is the President doing getting involved?

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 12:47:55 PM »
I read the story last night, and one particular was that a neighbor told the police that he/she had seen a black man trying to force the door open. That would certainly arouse suspicion, if it's true.

The police report, if accurate, shows a guy who deserved to be arrested.

Obama is involved because he's Obama, and he can cure racism.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 12:49:31 PM »
So what if he eventually showed I.D. and did live there?
This is the USA. We allow people a lot of leeway in their own homes. One of the things we allow is for you to enjoy your own home without having the authorities come by and hassle you.

Quote
He wasn't arrested for not showing I.D., he was arrested for Disorderly Conduct. He intially refused to show I.D. and almost immediately began to shout and berate the cop. When Gates finally did show I.D. and the cop tried to leave, Gates followed him, screaming and ranting about racists in America and threatening the cops with his fame and position (police report and witnesses say Gates shouted several times, "You don't know who you're messing with!")
I gather that what he was really arrested for was pissing the cop off. Thats not really DC.

Quote
One of Gates's complaints is that the cop "...walked into [his] house without [his] permission." When  the police get a call of a possible break-in and arrive to find the door open and someone inside, of course they're going to walk in. How is the cop supposed to know, initially and when the person inside refuses to identify himself in any way, that that person is the resident?

The stories seem to differ widely on just where he was when the cop showed up. Some stories claim he was outside kicking on the door, others that he was inside. Some stories state he had a cab driver with him helping him, others don't mention the cab driver.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the cop will be exonerated. There is no video to refute his side of the story so the people that decide these things will rule in his favor all the way down the line, regardless of what the citizen or the cab driver says happened.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 12:49:35 PM »
I'm willing to bet that there are 3 sides to this story. What Gates said happened, what the cop says happened and what actually happened.
I'd probably be a little indignant (maybe even more than a little) if a cop walked into my my house unannounced and uninvited and even politley asked for  ID and proof of residence. How the heck would I know that one of my "concerned neighbors" had reported a possible break-in?
I also think Obama should have NEVER gotten involved in this.
Opens the door to any white cop/minority citizen interaction becoming a race issue with the cops on the loosing end everytime, deserved or not.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 01:33:04 PM »
Definitely wildly varying stories right now. From where the Venn Diagram intersects from those stories I've seen:

1) The homeowner had an attitude and I believe he was giving a "screw you" attitude to the cop on initial contact.

2) Once the homeowner showed ID, the officer should probably have ignored his outbursts, said thank you, and walked away, no matter how rude the homeowner was getting, as long as there was no physical threat.

Personally, if someone saw me breaking into my home or car and called the cops, I'd already be getting my ID out before the cops walked up to me. I'm obviously doing something that looks suspicious, and quite frankly, I'd thank them for checking into it. It's ten minutes of my time versus if it wasn't me, stopping someone from breaking into my property. It's not like they're coming up to me on the street and demanding my papers while I'm standing around minding my own business. Someone made a legitimate call over a concern and the officers investigated just as they're supposed to do. I'd like to get the straight story for what actually happened after ID was verified.

Definitely Obama should shut the hell up.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 01:40:26 PM »
This is the USA. We allow people a lot of leeway in their own homes. One of the things we allow is for you to enjoy your own home without having the authorities come by and hassle you.
I gather that what he was really arrested for was pissing the cop off. Thats not really DC.

The stories seem to differ widely on just where he was when the cop showed up. Some stories claim he was outside kicking on the door, others that he was inside. Some stories state he had a cab driver with him helping him, others don't mention the cab driver.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the cop will be exonerated. There is no video to refute his side of the story so the people that decide these things will rule in his favor all the way down the line, regardless of what the citizen or the cab driver says happened.




What I meant by the question was that it had nothing to do with his eventual arrest. He wasn't arrested for refusing to show I.D., he wasn't arrested for being inside the house with or without reason, and he wasn't arrested for pissing off the cop. He was arrested for ranting and screaming and causing a public disturbance. The police reports states the reason for the charge:

On Thursday July 16, 2009, Henry Gates, Jr. [redacted] of [redacted] Ware St, Cambridge, MA) was placed under arrest at [redacted] Ware St., after being observed exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior, in a public place, directed at a uniformed police officer who was present investigating a report of a crime in progress. These actions on behalf of Gates served no legitimate purpose and caused citizens passing by to stop and take notice while appearing surprised and alarmed.

Initial reports were confused about some details. Now it's been established that Gates was alone in the house, his driver had left after Gates was able to get in the back door.

As to "One of the things we allow is for you to enjoy your own home without having the authorities come by and hassle you.", the police got a report of a possible break-in and were investigating. The officer said that he initially wanted Gates outside because he didn't know if he was actually the resident. After he finally got Gates to show I.D. he still wanted him to come outside for his own safety because he still didn't know if there was someone else inside. How is that a hassle? As RKLarry said above, I'd be indignant about the situation in general, too, but I've got sense enough to know ranting and screaming at the cop isn't going to do a bit of good.

Someone should sit Gates down and scream at him until it sinks into his skull that everything negative, or that he perceives as negative, that happens to him in life isn't influenced by the color of his skin, it just seems that way in his prejudiced mind. He's as wrong as two left shoes in this matter. Period.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 02:03:04 PM »
Quote
A spokesman for the Police Department did not return a call seeking comment. But in the report, Sergeant Crowley said that as he told Professor Gates he was investigating a possible break-in, Professor Gates exclaimed, “Why, because I’m a black man in America?” and accused the sergeant of racism.

“While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence,” Sergeant Crowley wrote in the report, “I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me.”

Professor Gates followed him outside, the report said, and yelled at him despite the sergeant’s warning “that he was becoming disorderly.” Sergeant Crowley then arrested and handcuffed him. Professor Gates was held at police headquarters for hours before being released on his recognizance.

“He is cooperating now with the city to resolve this matter as soon as possible,” Professor Ogletree said, adding that Professor Gates wanted the charges against him dismissed.

Professor Ogletree said that Professor Gates had “never touched” Sergeant Crowley, but did “express his frustration at being subjected to the threat of arrest in his own home.”
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mellestad

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 02:11:51 PM »
I agree with some posters, there is obviously a story here and I doubt anyone will ever know the full details.

Having said that, it is interesting to see who immediately sides with the police officer, and who immediately sides with the black professor, even when no-one has any evidence of either persons conduct.  Perhaps there is room for some self-analysis here?

Obama was involved because a reporter asked him a direct question about this incident, since the man is a personal acquaintance of Obama's, obviously.  I don't see how that is innapropriate.

As for *my* personal opinion, regardless of what happened, and who is telling the truth, what gives a cop the right to arrest someone for being belligerent in their own home (or yard)?  Unless the man actually struck him physically, I can see no justification for arrest.  I think free citizens have a right to be rude to a police officer even if they don't have any cause.  I am surprised that is not the mainstream opinion so far, given this forums reputation for aggressively upholding constitutional rights.  The fact that no-one in his chain of command was willing to back him up also says something...police departments don't usually rail-road their officers.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 02:30:49 PM »
I just read a story the other day where an individual was playing a video game and yelling and screaming during his play. A neighbor called the cops and the police came to investigate. He refused them entry and was arrested or detained for a while.

As far as the story goes, I THINK that the police were doing their job. If I was on patrol and received notice that a possible break in was happening, I would investigate it. If the individual refused to prove he lived there, that would pose a problem. If the suspect got angry and rebellious, that would further raise some questions. It would be interesting to know the complete story before saying the cops were "stupid".
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 02:32:58 PM »
Having said that, it is interesting to see who immediately sides with the police officer, and who immediately sides with the black professor, even when no-one has any evidence of either persons conduct.  Perhaps there is room for some self-analysis here?

It is interesting.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2009, 02:34:28 PM »
when it comes to public disterbances like this, i see it on the officiers side. in certan naighborhoods, and incident like that can start a riot. disorderly conduct and disterbing the peace are not BS charges. yes, there often used as BS charges, but they themselves arn't.
Basically you have the right to say whatever you please, you also have the right to live with the consequences of those words. so my general rule of thumb is don't behaive like an a** to cops. if you have a complaint (and as an educated man, gates surely knew how to go about it) you get the officiers name, badge number and you file a complant with the officers supervisor. you don't publicly bereate the officer at the scene.

as for the cops throwing this one to the wolfs. luck of the draw. its one thing when the incident involves a nobody. its another when the guy in question is a personal friend of the president.
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mellestad

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2009, 02:45:45 PM »
when it comes to public disterbances like this, i see it on the officiers side. in certan naighborhoods, and incident like that can start a riot. disorderly conduct and disterbing the peace are not BS charges. yes, there often used as BS charges, but they themselves arn't.
Basically you have the right to say whatever you please, you also have the right to live with the consequences of those words. so my general rule of thumb is don't behaive like an a** to cops. if you have a complaint (and as an educated man, gates surely knew how to go about it) you get the officiers name, badge number and you file a complant with the officers supervisor. you don't publicly bereate the officer at the scene.

as for the cops throwing this one to the wolfs. luck of the draw. its one thing when the incident involves a nobody. its another when the guy in question is a personal friend of the president.

Exactly, I tend to agree.  This is where the details of the story get fuzzy though.  Gates says he showed his ID to the cop upon request, and repeatedly asked for his badge number and name, which he claims the officer did not provide, and claims the officer continued to harass him after he showed his ID.

The Officer claims he was nothing but polite and that Gates went nuts without provocation.

Obviously, who is right and wrong hinges on those details, and I do not see how anyone can know for sure unless there were direct witnesses.  One or both of them was being a jerk-off, I just don't know who.

I do feel a bit uncomfortable by the insinuation that follows by putting, "Black Studies" in quotes, in the original post.  I do not think that was helpful.  (but perhaps I am too sensitive?)

(edit: unless there was actually a threat of some sort of civil disturbance breaking out, I don't see that as a valid argument.  I think I agree with ilbob and others: regardless of what the dude said, as soon as he showed ID and displayed his wish that the officer leave his home the story should have been over, even if Gates was being a jerk.  The fact is if this guy *hadn't* been a big-shot professor, he probably never would have stood a chance.  I hate the idea that a cop with a grudge can make your life miserable, and that the answer to that is, "be polite".  (I am super-polite to the police, have never been arrested or even been in trouble...I *like* police, because they have always been helpful to me.  But I'm a white middle-class male in a stable environment so I'm not exactly on the front lines.)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:57:43 PM by mellestad »

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »
The most likely racist in this story is the guy who called it in.  :laugh:
The way I see it, the homeowner (who happens to be black) copped an attitude at being harassed on entering his domicile. The cop (who happens to be white) copped back an attitude and copped the fellow to the cop-station on account of hurt feelings, more or less.
Maybe he should get his wrist slapped for allowing personal feelings to interfere with his duty. But if the president wants to confront the police for crimes they've committed, we have another thread with a fair number of instances where the (major) crime is very clear-cut.
Unfortunately, the likely event is increased racial sensitivity classes as opposed to "protect and serve means just that" classes.

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2009, 02:51:49 PM »
If you start getting loud and "belligerent" with a cop while he is investigating a possible crime it is not unusual for them to escalate the situation to an arrest just to keep it from getting even further out of control I would suspect.

The homeowner (apparently) was not in possession of all the facts about what was occurring. He may not have known why the police were there and what they were told (black male attempting to kick in door of neighbors house).  

Personally I try and avoid all contact with police while they are in their official capacity. To this day I still have issues with authority :) I find some of the impersonal aggressive methods I've seen employed very uncomfortable. If I were being treated brusquely or being yelled at I may also react very strongly, it would require a lot of self control to not give the cop a piece of my mind. As I have gotten older I find that I don't jump to conclusions as quickly and am more willing to have empathy for others. The brusque and impersonal nature of the officer may be a response to a serious threat I'm not aware of or it may just be the cop is out of line.

Being cooperative and letting the situation play out has no downside IMHO. It may be that both these "gentlemen" need to learn how to treat others with respect.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 03:04:51 PM by Ron »
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2009, 02:55:34 PM »

I agree with some posters, there is obviously a story here and I doubt anyone will ever know the full details.

Having said that, it is interesting to see who immediately sides with the police officer, and who immediately sides with the black professor, even when no-one has any evidence of either persons conduct.  Perhaps there is room for some self-analysis here?

Obama was involved because a reporter asked him a direct question about this incident, since the man is a personal acquaintance of Obama's, obviously.  I don't see how that is innapropriate.

As for *my* personal opinion, regardless of what happened, and who is telling the truth, what gives a cop the right to arrest someone for being belligerent in their own home (or yard)?  Unless the man actually struck him physically, I can see no justification for arrest.  I think free citizens have a right to be rude to a police officer even if they don't have any cause.  I am surprised that is not the mainstream opinion so far, given this forums reputation for aggressively upholding constitutional rights.  The fact that no-one in his chain of command was willing to back him up also says something...police departments don't usually rail-road their officers.

I've been on both sides of situations like this more than once, as participant and observer. That's where my view of it comes from.

He wasn't arrested for "being rude to a police officer", he was arrested for disorderly conduct. You don't have a right to be a ranting raving screaming idiot in your own home or yard or anywhere else if it disturbs others.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2009, 03:01:55 PM »
I've been on both sides of situations like this more than once, as participant and observer. That's where my view of it comes from.

He wasn't arrested for "being rude to a police officer", he was arrested for disorderly conduct. You don't have a right to be a ranting raving screaming idiot in your own home or yard or anywhere else if it disturbs others.


This is the point though, there is zero collaborative evidence that he was a "ranting screaming idiot".  To me this issue is not about race, it is about a guy with  badge sending a guy to jail because he had hurt his feelings.  Boo-hoo. (edit: As an officer who has been given authority over other citizens, having a thick skin needs to be a #1 priority.  Rude is not illegal, it is too easy to abuse the authority that goes with a badge.)

Unless there is some sort of evidence that Gates was actually fomenting some sort of riot, I can see why the officer could be called, "stupid".
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 03:05:14 PM by mellestad »

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2009, 03:06:18 PM »
Whoever typed the Presidents response to this issue into the teleprompter should be fired.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2009, 03:08:27 PM »
"To me this issue is not about race, it is about a guy with  badge sending a guy to jail because he had hurt his feelings.  Boo-hoo."

Great. You have an opinion. For which there is absolutely supporting evidence.

Now if you buy a cookie, you'll have a snack, too.
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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2009, 03:16:16 PM »
"To me this issue is not about race, it is about a guy with  badge sending a guy to jail because he had hurt his feelings.  Boo-hoo."

Great. You have an opinion. For which there is absolutely [no] supporting evidence.

Now if you buy a cookie, you'll have a snack, too.

FTFY.

It's a strange world. Some people get rich and others eat *expletive deleted*it and die. Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

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But, generally speaking, people are idiots outside their own personal sphere.

K Frame

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Re: Obama: Cambridge police acted stupidly
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2009, 03:21:59 PM »
Yes, I mean to say NO supporting evidence.

Sigh.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.