Disposing of an estate

[Hutch]

How do family members who live out of town deal with the belongings of a deceased relative?  I, um.... have this friend (yeah, that's it) who's elderly parent has been moved into an old-folks home.  The 45 yo house is filled with what, at first blush, seems to be absolutely useless clutter.  I wouldn't imagine the yard-sale value of the stuff would bring the price of a single cheap plane ticket, much less make it worth someone's time to put it out for sale.

I imagine there are vulture enterprises that would be willing to empty a house and clean it for the contents therein.  I just can't figure out how to (tell my friend how to) locate one.

Got any ideas?

[Hawkmoon]

Are you asking about a deceased relative, of whom you are the executor, or are you asking about an elderly but still alive person who has been put in a nursing home but for whom you have NOT been named conservator?

If you are not the executor or the conservator, you have no legal right to sell the person's property. Regardless of how incapacitated (physically and/or mentally) they may be.

And, for the record, if the person has not died yet, it's not an "estate." It's "personal property."

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Most auctioneers know how to deal with this sort of thing.  Estate sales are fairly common.

And listen to Hawkmoon.  Unless the owner is dead and you're the official executor of the estate, then the stuff ain't yours to sell.

[Hutch]

There seems to be kind of a sinister undertone to replies.  Nothing can be further from the truth.  The senior in consideration has just entered an assisted living facility.  His possessions will HAVE to be disposed of somehow, so that the 3 heirs to the house can sell it.  None of this activity is done without the full knowledge and hearty consent of the ALL members of family, including the senior.  All that being said, I hope I didn't sound too touchy.  I just HATE dealing with this crap.  Are there agencies or companies that do this sort of stuff?  If so, how do we find them?  My Google-fu revealed nada.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Google 'estate sale'.

[vaskidmark]

someone needs to be appointed by the senior to dispose of his property.  power of attorney is one way of appointing the individual.

lacking the authorization to do so, disposing of the property could be charged as theft or worse, exploitation of an impairded senior citizen under adult abuse laws.  verbal authorization is not sufficient.

as has been mentioned, estate sales are one way to proceed.  a good auctioneer will help cull the dross from that which could bring better return - it's in the auctioneer's interest as their fee is based on the sales total.

all that is left over can either be hauled to the dump or listed on something like craig's list to see if a few more pennies can be added to the senior's assets.  which is where the reminder comes in - the proceeds belong to the senior - diverting those proceeds can have unfortunate consequences for the senior as well as those diverting the funds.  medicaide/medicare fraud are the least of the consequences to worry about.

another way to dispose of that which does not go at auction is to contact the local agency on aging to see if there are folks who are in need of such items.  just be reasonable about what you offer - decent clothing, furniture, etc is ok, but stacks of old magazines, used kleenex, etc are not.

if the family is going to wait till the senior dies before disposing of the property, remember that there will be liabilities to be paid off - perhaps including to the state to recover costs of care - that will make the effort even more burdensome.  also, if the senior dies intestate there willbe even more hassel than mere probate.

finally, there are always 'haul your junk' folks out there who might negotiate price based on the value they see in what's to be hauled.  they do that for a living so do not expect to snow them about value.

stay safe.

skidmark

[BridgeRunner]

What everyone else said.  Now that others have covered the basics and the legalities, I've got two personal suggestions, from recent family experience.

First, try to keep everyone from getting emotional about stuff they want to keep.  You gotta want to keep it enough to be willing to devote X number of square feet to it until you decide to get rid of it. 

Second, DON'T, for the love of god and all that is holy, decide to "gift" any younger and less established relatives with things you all are too attached to to toss out but not attached enough to keep for yourselves. 

My in-laws' home is over-crammed with the furniture they couldn't let go of.  My home is also crammed with the furniture they just couldn't get rid of.  Actually, at this point, I put my foot down after literally tripping over too much stuff too many times and now most of it is in the garage, waiting for my spouse to get around to renting a truck to haul it to the dump.  From talking with my probate clients, I gather that this is a pretty common phenomenon.  Probably not as much now as when the owner of the stuff dies, but it seems to still happen.  Get rid of it.  It really is a lot easier that way.

Yeah, I know the op didn't mention this.  Consider it a PSA from hard experience.

(And I swear my FIL's head will explode if I ever toss his mother's big, elaborate antique dresser that I hate and that is not child-appropriate, currently relegated to our basement until our three year old is big enough to be saddled with the thing.  I just hope she has the guts to toss it when she's old enough.) 

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

My home is also crammed with the furniture they just couldn't get rid of.

Craigslist it and you might not even need to rent a truck.

[CNYCacher]

Craigslist it and you might not even need to rent a truck.

This

[Hutch]

I appreciate everyone's input.  I still get the vibe that some members here attribute dark motives.

lacking the authorization to do so, disposing of the property could be charged as theft or worse, exploitation of an impairded senior citizen under adult abuse laws.  verbal authorization is not sufficient.

I thought I made it plain: This stuff is a burden, not loot.  Until we can get rid of it, the old man is sitting on an unsellable property

the yard-sale value of the stuff would not bring the price of a single cheap plane ticket, much less make it worth someone's time to put it out for sale.

It would be by FAR easier, less burdensome, and less loving to simply ignore the issue and let other, more emotionally involved in laws deal with it.  I sure as hell don't need the hassle.

[HankB]

Assuming the family (including the elderly relative!) is all on good terms, gets along, and can amicably agree on things, consider that even "junk" has value - assuming it's not utter garbage that actually should go to the dump, charities like Goodwill and the Salvation Army will take a lot of it, and whoever hauls it in can get a receipt which they can then use to claim a tax deductable charitable contribution.

Unless there's squabbling over the estate, I really don't see any reason to involve anyone from .gov to dispose of undeeded property.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I appreciate everyone's input.  I still get the vibe that some members here attribute dark motives.I

We just want you to be careful.  There are all sorts of ways to get yourself into trouble doing something like this, even if your intentions are honorable.

[RoadKingLarry]

Being right in the big middle of exactly this type of deal I'll summarize what we are doing.

My 80 year old aunt and 84 year old uncle had no living children.
My uncle passed in December.
My aunt, dad's sister has moderate to severe Alzheimer's.
Myself and a cousin from my dad's other sister have been the only ones to step up ad help out.
My cousin has power of attorney and is primary caretaker for my aunt, I am listed as secondary on both.
My aunt is living in an assisted living facility.
My aunt and uncle were the King and queen of packrats, they never threw anything away that they thought might be useful. Lucky for them they lived on a 120 acre farm with a modest house but several barns shop buildings and several smaller outbuildings.

We decided that we would sort through the household items as my aunt wants a good bit of those to be divided among the family. My task is to sort the shops and tool sheds and farm equipment.
Like I said before, they never threw anything away.  National Geographics magazines dating to the '60s, handyman and woodworking magazines back to the late '50s. Antiques of all sorts. In bottom of the chest freezer we found a fair sized box of silver coins. School books as far back as the early '20s. Farm equipment from the horse drawn era to the mid '50s.
Some of it is just unmitigated junk, some of it is potentially valuable antiques and it is almost impossible to what is which till we sort it out.
If anyone needs to know how to do a wheel alignment on a 1928 Hupmobile  I have access to a service manual until it goes on the auction block.

Once we have it sorted and my aunt is satisfied with the distribution of her treasures to her relatives the remainder will be sold at auction. We will also likely sell the farm at auction but it will have a fairly high reserve.

[slugcatcher]

Contact a lawyer. He/she/it will tell you what you need to do. The proceeds from any sale of property will cover the expense.

[Brad Johnson]

Kinda an echo of everyone else,

1) Appoint ONE person as the "President of the Stuff Getter Ridder Of-er Association". Have Mr. Senior give written consent to the sale and disposition of said stuff. Have all siblings and/or interested parties give written consent for the appointee to handle their interests.

2) Go through and throw away anything that is genuinely trash - old newspapers, out-of-date food, items that are abused or damaged beyond repair or parts-salvage use.

3) Pick a weekend for the estate sale and go to it. If you don't feel like taking on the task yourself, hire an estate auctioneer.

4) Donate any leftover useful items to a local charity.

5) Call a Junk-Hauler-Off'er for everything that's left.

6) Prepare for sale.

Brad

[280plus]

Caution, when you use the words "Estate" and "Sale" together in newspaper ads it really brings the vultures out. You must control the crowd very precisely and let noone wander around unescorted or they will rob you blind. Especially the sweet looking little old ladies.

[Chester32141]

Having recently dealt w/ the same situation as RoadKingLarry I can tell you we contacted a local auction service and they did an amazing job of sorting and selling and cleaning and all it cost was a percentage of the take ... 'stuff' sold for $20,000 and cost us 20% and the farm sold for $100,000 and cost us nothing but cost the buyer 10% ... check out the local auctioneers in the area that the person lives ... once the auctioneers were called I had to do NOTHING but look to see if they had anything I wanted to keep ... They did not handle the sale of handguns as it was NY but they sold many rifles ... they did not get top $$ but the effort required to do what their team of workers did would have Killed me !

Ask around and you should be able to find the most popular auctioneer in that area ... 

[Hawkmoon]

There seems to be kind of a sinister undertone to replies.

I, for one, intended no "sinister undertones." My post was intended (a) to get you thinking clearly (in other words, if Gramps hasn't died yet, it isn't an "estate" regardless of how you think of it); and (b) to keep YOU from getting your posterior in a sling, legally.

But, I assume you are an adult, and all advice in the Internet is worth what you paid for it, so feel free to think I'm impugning your motives. It's your call.

I thought I made it plain: This stuff is a burden, not loot.  Until we can get rid of it, the old man is sitting on an unsellable property

Cash value doesn't make much difference. Skid's point, and mine, is that you have no legal right to sell the stuff junk without a written document assigning you that right. Normally, that would be a power-of-attorney.

Ever hear the expression, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"?

How about, "No good deed shall go unpunished"?

CYA, that's all we're saying.

[Waitone]

Add to it, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."  Actually it is an excuse.  That is why lawyers can be your best friend.

[BridgeRunner]

Or, in other words, the right paperwork can keep your actions from being seen as just as honorable as your sleaziest, most difficult, most unstable, most desperate relative is willing to concede.

[Scout26]

Kinda an echo of everyone else,

1) Appoint ONE person as the "President of the Stuff Getter Ridder Of-er Association". Have Mr. Senior give written consent to the sale and disposition of said stuff. Have all siblings and/or interested parties give written consent for the appointee to handle their interests.

2) Go through and throw away anything that is genuinely trash - old newspapers, out-of-date food, items that are abused or damaged beyond repair or parts-salvage use.

3) Pick a weekend for the estate sale and go to it. If you don't feel like taking on the task yourself, hire an estate auctioneer.

4) Donate any leftover useful items to a local charity.

5) Call a Junk-Hauler-Off'er for everything that's left.

6) Prepare for sale.

Brad

Everyone here has great advice  I’ll add one point to Brad’s list.  (Having witnessed/assisted my wife with her mother’s estate)
2A) Let all the relatives know that they have until such-and-such date to come and claim any sentimental trinket(s)/item(s) they wish.  If it’s something of higher value, then it’s needs to be worked out with all parties and agreements signed that Billy Bob gets the camper and Bobby Ray gets the boat.    Believe me, you'll avoid a whole bunch of hassles later on. 

And do make sure that the all the legal I's are crossed and the T’s doted.  Lawyers love to feed off crap like this. 

[Clem]

I am in that situation now myself. My mother is 88 and in a nursing home in rehab following an operation. She now has a very nice Independent Living apartment in the facility. We have moved some of her stuff in and she is waiting for medical clearance to move in. The house still has plenty of stuff in it, some of which is fairly valuable. I am the one with the Power of Attorney and am paying the bills and stuff now. We wil have to remove everything from the house to get it ready to sell. Fortunately, my mother's mind is unimpared and she can make decisions for herself.

[280plus]

Actually, so am I. Granny passed last year leaving auntie (91) the only inhabitant of the old two family they owned. So we're working on moving her to assisted living as well and yes, all kinds of depression era type stuff of unknown value to be dealt with. Fortunately, we've been going at it for a while now and have most of it out of the way. I keep hedging on pulling what's left out of there because I don't want to leave her with a half empty house to live in. Oh, to clarify, they lived together on the first floor, the second floor has been completely empty for years. So I'd be pulling granny's stuff (lamps, tables beds etc) out of where she lives now. She has her faculties but repeats questions an awful lot. 

[vaskidmark]

She has her faculties but repeats questions an awful lot. 

not sure about all my faculties on some days and i'm quite a bit younger. 

i also repeat questions, especilly if i do not like the answer i get the first few times.  it's a trick we seniors learned from grandchildren.

stay safe.

skidmark

[coppertales]

Thanks for the information from several posters.  My Dad passed away last month.  He planned ahead and got rid/sold/gave to us kids, all of his stuff except what he needed to live on.  That went in a garage sale.  My sister is the executor of the estate, which is a good choice.  One of my brothers is a money grubbing sob.  All he has left is some real estate and a car.  The will evenly divided the estate.

My co-worker's dad passed away last month.  They hired an estate seller to handle the sale of the stuff.  They really knew what they were doing and much more was made than he expected.  The real estate was sold through a realitor.  Things went smoothly for them.

I on the other hand, am the Emperior of stuff.  I hope I go first so I don't have to handle my stuff.....