Author Topic: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes  (Read 6854 times)

roo_ster

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Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« on: October 01, 2009, 02:00:06 PM »
Interesting.





http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09274/1002298-100.stm#ixzz0ShgBW5Ii

The first major analysis of one of the earliest known hominids suggests that humans may not have evolved from apes.

One of the principal investigators, C. Owen Lovejoy, associate professor of biological anthropology at Kent State University, said the research reveals that the reverse could be true: Apes might have evolved from the hominids that eventually evolved into humans.

"People often think we evolved from apes, but no, apes in many ways evolved from us," Dr. Lovejoy said. "It has been a popular idea to think humans are modified chimpanzees. From studying Ardipithecus ramidus, or 'Ardi,' we learn that we cannot understand or model human evolution from chimps and gorillas."

The research is being published in a special edition of the journal Science.

An international team of 47 scientists for the first time thoroughly described Ardipithecus ramidus, a hominid that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.

The research consists of 11 detailed papers that describe the Ardipithecus fossils that include a partial skeleton of a female, nicknamed "Ardi."

The last common ancestor shared by humans and chimpanzees is thought to have lived 6 or more million years ago. Though Ardipithecus is not itself this last common ancestor, it likely shared many of this ancestor's characteristics.

For comparison, Ardipithecus is more than a million years older than the "Lucy" female partial skeleton of Australopithecus afarensis. Until the discovery of the new Ardipithecus remains, the fossil record contained scant evidence of other hominids older than Lucy.

Through an analysis of the skull, teeth, pelvis, hands, feet and other bones, the researchers have determined that Ardipithecus had a mix of "primitive" traits, shared with its predecessors, the primates of the Miocene epoch, and "derived" traits, which it shares exclusively with later hominids.

Because of its antiquity, Ardipithecus takes us closer to the still-elusive last common ancestor.

However, many of its traits do not appear in modern-day African apes. One surprising conclusion, therefore, is that it is likely that the African apes have evolved extensively since we shared that last common ancestor, which suggests that living chimpanzees and gorillas are poor models for the last common ancestor and for understanding our own evolution since that time.

Primary authors in the project include Dr. Lovejoy, who studied the skeletal remains below the neck and helped determine that Ardi could walk upright, but not as well as humans, and could climb trees, but not as proficiently as chimpanzees and other great apes.

Those results among others place Ardi as an important transitional hominid in the evolutionary journey that led to humans.

"It's another step toward understanding human evolution and completing our understanding," Dr. Lovejoy said. "Ultimately it says something about our place in the world."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09274/1002298-100.stm#ixzz0ShyRLHVU
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 01:00:58 PM by mtnbkr »
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MechAg94

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 03:31:58 PM »
That is pretty interesting.  Some ideas in there I hadn't heard seen any articles mention before.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 05:24:33 PM »
Well, I guess I will be a monkey's uncle.

stay safe.

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 05:48:05 PM »
Not a new idea. 

In fact, if you look at the Australopithecines, you'll find many divergent branches, including Robustus and Boisei, neither of which gave rise to the later Homo genus.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 08:34:22 PM »
It is interesting to contemplate all the branches of the family tree that led to homo sapiens.  Why some flourished and some did not.  I have read a lot about the Cro-Magnons and the Neanderthals and interbreeding between the two, and the possible role that the Cro-Magnons played in the eventual extinction of the Neanderthals.
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MechAg94

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 08:41:46 PM »
Well, I guess I will be a monkey's uncle.

stay safe.

skidmark
No. No.  Just a monkey's cousin.  :D
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 08:46:09 PM »
Interesting stuff!

I have to wonder sometimes whether Homo sapiens is really a successful species.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 08:54:23 PM »
If you want to have evolved from a slug, be my guest.  I would much rather have been created.   =D
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2009, 09:33:36 PM »
If you want to have evolved from a slug, be my guest.  I would much rather have been created.   =D

Some didn't evolve, some got elected.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2009, 09:36:46 PM »
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2009, 10:54:50 PM »
Some didn't evolve, some got elected.

And some just got nominated real good.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 11:44:42 AM »
I have always wondered if it was likely humans and apes evolved in parallel from a common ancestor.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 12:41:13 PM »
The whole 'Humans evolved from apes' has always been a misstatement.  As the article notes, both Humans and apes evolved from a common Hominid anscestor.

Evolution doesn't just stop, you know.

mellestad

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2009, 01:45:51 PM »
The whole 'Humans evolved from apes' has always been a misstatement.  As the article notes, both Humans and apes evolved from a common Hominid anscestor.

Evolution doesn't just stop, you know.

I agree, the article is claiming a statement that has never really been part of modern evolutionary theory.  The family tree that humans and the rest of the great apes share forked a long time ago.

MechAg94

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2009, 02:39:50 PM »
Interesting stuff!

I have to wonder sometimes whether Homo sapiens is really a successful species.
Under that right kind of pressures, humans are pretty successful.  In the protected lifestyle we live now, there is sometimes very little pressure to do anything.
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brimic

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2009, 03:05:26 PM »
Quote
The whole 'Humans evolved from apes' has always been a misstatement.

Considering that apes have an extra chromosome pair over humans, its highly unlikely that they would have anyway.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2009, 10:38:33 PM »
Quote
Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes

What about leftists ?  Does it say anything about leftists ?  I'm too tired to RTFA.

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2009, 04:03:51 AM »
Quote
Apes might have evolved from the hominids that eventually evolved into humans.

Thats the way I created it. Now to go make a new species.....something with the morals of a slug and the look of a snake.....Homo Pelosius....

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2009, 05:24:28 AM »
Thou art an evil and vengeful god.   Oh great Ken-thulu may I die first when thy reign ensues...

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2009, 11:57:22 AM »
Under that right kind of pressures, humans are pretty successful.  In the protected lifestyle we live now, there is sometimes very little pressure to do anything.

So, in other words, we are extremely successful?
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 07:45:52 AM »
To the point of ceasing our own evolution, yes.

Some might say we are actually sabotaging ourselves because of it.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2009, 12:21:39 PM »
Well, I would argue that we are actually achieving greater things through technological progress than any kind of evolutionary process might have given us.
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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2009, 02:57:04 PM »
To the point where we may have ceased our species' natural evolution, and have taken complete control of it for the first time, thus creating an artificial evolution of sorts?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2009, 10:10:18 PM »
Exactly. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing, though.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Oldest known hominid suggests humans didn't evolve from apes
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2009, 10:39:20 PM »
To the point of ceasing our own evolution, yes.

Some might say we are actually sabotaging ourselves because of it.

When did our evolution cease?

Ever visit Old Ironsides, or whatever that other Revolutionary era man-of-war is (the Constellation?) that's docked in Baltimore Harbor? Take a stroll on the cannon deck (which is the level below the main deck). I'm 6'-2" and I couldn't stand up down there. Most adult males around the time of the Revolution were no taller than 5'-6" or so. When I was in high school in the early 1960s I was considered TALL at 6'-2". By today's standards, I'm a midget. Half the women on any of the NCAA Division 1 teams are taller than I am.
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