Author Topic: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai  (Read 1281 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« on: October 23, 2009, 05:47:01 PM »
So simple even lolcat gets it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/22/AR2009102204448_pf.html
Quote
Manned NASA trips at 'tipping point' on funds

By Joel Achenbach
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 23, 2009

Put more money into NASA's human space flight program, or forget about going anywhere new and interesting with astronauts, a blue-ribbon panel told the White House on Thursday.

In its final report, "Seeking a Human Spaceflight Program Worthy of a Great Nation," the 10-person committee led by former aerospace executive Norman Augustine said NASA's program "is at a tipping point where either additional funds must be provided or the exploration program first instituted by President Kennedy must be abandoned at least for the time being."

About $3 billion a year more would be needed to have a robust exploration program, and even more than that to keep the existing program essentially on schedule, according to the report.

The committee had a jaundiced view of the Ares I rocket under development to replace the space shuttle. But the 154-page report stopped short of calling for the Ares I to be killed.

"It's a very expensive vehicle," Augustine said after a news conference in Washington.

Instead, the committee said, NASA could pump billions of dollars into a public-private partnership to build a cheaper no-frills spacecraft that could ferry astronauts to orbit by 2016. NASA, Augustine said, should be building spaceships that can travel to distant destinations "rather than running a trucking service to low earth orbit."

The NASA exploration program calls for two new rockets, a new crew capsule, a lunar lander by 2020 and a moon base. The Augustine panel said a return to the moon would be a viable strategy if NASA had more money. The panel also put forward what it calls a "flexible path," which would involve building a heavy-lift rocket to blast astronauts beyond low orbit. Missions might include the repairing of distant telescopes, a rendezvous with a near-Earth asteroid, a flyby of Mars and perhaps a visit to one of the Martian moons.

Lots of companies can launch junk into LEO.

NASA has a freakin' SPACE STATION.  Use it.  Build a better space station using your crew assets on the first one and commercial heavy launch facilities.  Perhaps one that has rotational symmetry around an axis, so it generates artificial gravity via centripetal force?

"The space shuttle is a glorified jeep" is one of the complaints I often hear about it.  "Instead of a semi truck, we got a jeep."

Well... trick it out for space rock-crawling then.  I've seen Jeeps pull F350 4x4's out of the mud.  =)

Deliver cargo to LEO, intercept it with permanently orbiting space shuttles stationed at the ISS, truck stuff around using the "winch" (the robotic arm and cargo bay) and build new stuff up there.  The biggest drawbacks to the shuttle are in its launch system.  Get them up one last time, dock them permanently with the ISS and use them as life boats instead of the Soyuz currently in place.

SpaceX, Boeing, Russia, Japan, Europe, India and China all have LEO capabilities.  Probably Raytheon, too, and other companies that I don't know about.

We're the only ones with the Space Shuttles, and their weakness is in takeoff (fuel expenditure and infrastructure is too costly, bad rings on SRB's induce vulnerability) and re-entry (damage to tile creates weakness in thermal shield).  Keep 'em in space.  Make 'em DO something.

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Tallpine

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 01:30:58 PM »
Quote
Instead, the committee said, NASA could pump billions of dollars into a public-private partnership to build a cheaper no-frills spacecraft that could ferry astronauts to orbit by 2016. NASA, Augustine said, should be building spaceships that can travel to distant destinations "rather than running a trucking service to low earth orbit."

Um, you're not going to travel to distant destinations with a surface launched vehicle.  :rolleyes:

In order to travel to the stars (or Mars) we need an operational shuttle system - something that makes commuting to and from earth orbit about as routine as flying across the Pacific.  Then we can build an interplanetary or interstellar vehicle in orbit, that uses a nuclear rocket engine for propulsion.

The US space program really ran aground in the early 1960s when Kennedy announced that we were going to land on the moon before 1970.  Before that, we had been working on an aerodynamic shuttle in very small steps.  But the US peed its pants when the Ruskies launched Spudnik, and decided to go with the human cannonball approach :(

The moon landings really were a hoax - not because we didn't get to the moon, but because we sidelined real progress in manned space travel.  Then the "space shuttle" monstrosity was cobbled together mostly based on keeping rocket factories in business.  Absent the "moon race" we would probably have colonies on the moon by now, and have been to Mars as well.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2009, 01:55:11 PM »
Ehm. NASA is not the only US-based entity to operate an orbital habitat.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2009, 01:58:03 PM »
Ehm. NASA is not the only US-based entity to operate an orbital habitat.

Who else has one in space currently?

Chris

Gewehr98

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 01:59:14 PM »
Mir's doing really well now, too...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2009, 02:19:31 PM »
Who else has one in space currently?

Chris

Bigelow Aerospace has one that's experimental [only inhabited by the test animals], and they're planning to launch the crewed one, Sundancer, in 2011.

Yeah, it's not the ISS, but I think it supports my point that NASA =/= all manned space exploration.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 03:23:04 PM »
but I think it supports my point that NASA =/= all manned space exploration.

Not until there are humans aboard.

Chris


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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 05:07:35 PM »
Maybe we can compromise with MB, and have a stationed crewed by furries?   =D
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tyme

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 05:30:21 PM »
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Then we can build an interplanetary or interstellar vehicle in orbit, that uses a nuclear rocket engine for propulsion.

I would love to see that happen, but with what infrastructure would we put the pieces together once they're boosted into orbit?  The ISS is not capable of anything remotely like that.  We are so far away from an effective orbital "dry dock"...
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Tallpine

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 10:19:19 PM »
I would love to see that happen, but with what infrastructure would we put the pieces together once they're boosted into orbit?  The ISS is not capable of anything remotely like that.  We are so far away from an effective orbital "dry dock"...

Because we don't have a real operational shuttle system  :rolleyes:
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Gowen

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Re: Uhmerika can haz space? kthxbai
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 11:47:55 PM »
Politics has destroyed the NASA and space exploration.  Kennedy said lets do this because it's hard.  His death galvanized the country into doing it.  Late 60's and 70's gave us Vietnam, Watergate and the aftermath of each.  Regan started SDI and the Dems screamed "don't make war in space."  This, after we've been fed a diet of Star Trek, Star Wars and a host of other space war flicks out of un-Holy Wood.  GHWB and Clinton do nothing.  GWB say's let go to Mars and the laughter and scorn from the Dems and media is deafening.  Obama, you know the rest.
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