Fort Hood, TX: Shooting

[seeker_two]

Obama's religion isn't Islam.....it's political power..... 


One thing about the 5.7....it did as well as any non-magnum sevice round in damage done....and it's made me reconsider the 5.7 from a short-barrel pistol like the Five-seveN.....too bad no one else chambers it....

[Silver Bullet]

I can't find the link now, but earlier today I read on the news that the shooter's lawyer is asking authorities to not question his client.  Further, he doubts his client can get a fair trial.

What exactly is he suggesting here ?  That because the lawyer doesn't believe his client should get a fair trial, that the government should just let him walk ?  After killing more than a dozen people ?   

Tomorrow I expect to read where the lawyer is demanding an Honorable Discharge for his client.  Wednesday, he'll be demanding full retirement benefits.  Thursday, compensation for the way his client was shot in self-defense without being tried first.  Friday, compensation for the news using his client's name and image without his permission.   

[Hawkmoon]

I can't find the link now, but earlier today I read on the news that the shooter's lawyer is asking authorities to not question his client.  Further, he doubts his client can get a fair trial.

Too many attorneys have come to confuse the right to a fair trial with the "right" to be guaranteed an acquittal. In this guy's case, despite the media insistence on referring to him as the "suspect," there is no question that he did the deed. His motive(s) may not be known and may never be known, but they don't really matter. He did the deed. There really is no exculpatory evidence that can be offered, so a trial is essentially a formality. He was in uniform, shooting military personnel on a military base. He's going before a military court, and I think they can produce a courts martial panel that's sufficiently objective to play by the rules.

[Balog]

Let's hope he bucks the trend and actually receives a carried out death sentence from the .mil.

[RocketMan]

Let's hope he bucks the trend and actually receives a carried out death sentence from the .mil.

I am in agreement with this sentiment.  It's been 48 years since the last military execution, IIRC.  Quite a trend to buck.

[MillCreek]

I can't find the link now, but earlier today I read on the news that the shooter's lawyer is asking authorities to not question his client.  Further, he doubts his client can get a fair trial.

What exactly is he suggesting here ?  That because the lawyer doesn't believe his client should get a fair trial, that the government should just let him walk ?  After killing more than a dozen people ?   

What the defense lawyer is suggesting is that his client cannot get a fair trial if the trial were to be held at Ft. Hood.  This is because of the wide publicity and the large number of persons impacted by the shooting could make finding an impartial jury in that area difficult.  Because of this, the trial will very likely be moved to another, more distant, jurisdiction. 

The same concept applies to civilian trials.

[SADShooter]

Has the round Hasan was stopped with been reported?

[makattak]

Has the round Hasan was stopped with been reported?

No. However, a bit of investigative work:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_police_sgt_kimberly_munley_credited_with_ending_fort_hood_gunman_maj_nidal_malik.html

She's a civilian cop employed by Ft. Hood. The picture in that article looks like she has a Beretta 92 on her hip.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/fort-hood-hero-sgt-kimberly-munleys-asked-died/story?id=9022438

Statements about her partner say "his Beretta" which leads me to believe that, as they are employed by the army, they likely are issued Beretta 92's.

My guess is 9mm.

[Silver Bullet]

What the defense lawyer is suggesting is that his client cannot get a fair trial if the trial were to be held at Ft. Hood.  This is because of the wide publicity and the large number of persons impacted by the shooting could make finding an impartial jury in that area difficult.  Because of this, the trial will very likely be moved to another, more distant, jurisdiction. 

The same concept applies to civilian trials.

I'm sure you're correct. 

I was a bit peeved reading the lawyer's fair trial remark right after reading the lawyer didn't want authorities questioning his client.  The article I read didn't quote the lawyer as stating his client couldn't get a fair trial in the military.  The wording suggested to me he thought his client couldn't get a fair trial anywhere in America.

[SADShooter]

Thanks, makattak!

I suppose it could be a 96, but you're probably right with the 92.

I was surprised and disappointed that 4 rounds didn't end him.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Do we know where those 4 rouns hit him?

[40 caliber]

If you want to kill as many American soldiers as possible just attack them outside a “combat zone.”  As a soldier and former marine, I’ve thought about this issue for many years because I am effectively deprived of my right to self-defense about 98% percent of the time I am in uniform.

http://willtoexist.com/easy-kill-american-soldiers_2415/

[crt360]

I suppose it could be a 96, but you're probably right with the 92.

I was surprised and disappointed that 4 rounds didn't end him.

From what I read or saw on the local news, it was a 9mm.  I think it probably would have ended him had he not received immediate medical attention.  Keep in mind that he was the last one shot, initially thought to have been one of the victims by the first responders, treated as such, and then quickly transported over to Scott & White hospital with the other seriously wounded.

Not to sound morbid, and maybe more facts will come out that completely change my opinion, but the results of the 5.7 didn't put it on my short list of defensive handguns.  With what was reported as well over 100 rounds fired at unarmed folks, at close range, in confined areas, the guy shot approximately 44 people, multiple times for some if not most, of which 13 died, and 31 were wounded.  Of those wounded, as of yesterday, 27 had already been treated and released.  Some of those shot said they were not even initially aware they had been hit.

[SADShooter]

I initially heard they were all COM/torso, but I haven't seen verification. 5.7 seems like a niche cartridge with some value using SS190 in the P90, but the FiveSeveN (?) pistol with ball doesn't seem like a great defensive (offensive ) choice.

[Perd Hapley]

Maybe I'm all wrong, but the discussion of 5.7 terminal ballistics seems very out of place in this thread.   

[crt360]

Maybe I'm all wrong, but the discussion of 5.7 terminal ballistics seems very out of place in this thread.   

Sorry, fistful, I don't know what to say.  At first, I thought the same thing.  I even deleted my initial response before retyping it.  Then I decided, if this thread is called "Fort Hood, TX: Shooting", maybe this is the place to comment on it.  We've already talked about everything else, from the shooter's religious beliefs to members' dissatisfaction with the President's public statements on the issue.  As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I actually drove to the hospital where victims were being treated on the afternoon of the shooting to donate blood.  I'm not trying to callously derail a memorial thread with my response about the shooter's weapon of choice, but if others would like it removed or relocated, that's fine with me.

[Perd Hapley]

Good job on the blood donation.  I don't think anyone's trying to be unfeeling, or anything.  I just think some of those comments could be saved for another thread. 

[roo_ster]

http://willtoexist.com/easy-kill-american-soldiers_2415/

Crazy talk^^^, I say! 

Same little bit of crazy with this:
http://www.star-telegram.com/local/story/1743437.html

Ka-ray-zee! No WAY could we actually train military folks to use and carry arms.  Just unrealistic to expect commanders to complete such a task, which would obviously interfere with more important tasks like...and...and...

[SADShooter]

fistful:

I'm processing information, which is part of my (unconscious?) means of dealing with an array of strong feelings on this topic. My intent certainly was not to diminish anyone else's grief or to seem crass. Like crt360, I'll encourage the mods to edit as they deem appropriate.                 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Maybe I'm all wrong, but the discussion of 5.7 terminal ballistics seems very out of place in this thread.  

Mostly it's a wishin' he was dead kinda thing.  As in, why is there no justice, why does he survive getting shot but the 12 victims don't?

[Hawkmoon]

Mostly it's a wishin' he was dead kinda thing.  As in, why is there no justice, why does he survive getting shot but the 12 victims don't?

Hopefully, so he doesn't get to be regarded by other Islamicist nutjobs as a martyr/hero. IMHO it would have been manifestly unjust if he had succeeded in martyring himself by going out in a blaze of [Islamicist] glory. I'm much happier thinking he's alive and paralyzed. I suppose that makes me a bad person and a bad Christian, but ... I'll survive.

[Perd Hapley]

Bad, bad, bad Christian!

I shall add a  , just to avoid confusion.   

[zxcvbob]

Hopefully, so he doesn't get to be regarded by other Islamicist nutjobs as a martyr/hero. IMHO it would have been manifestly unjust if he had succeeded in martyring himself by going out in a blaze of [Islamicist] glory. I'm much happier thinking he's alive and paralyzed. I suppose that makes me a bad person and a bad Christian, but ... I'll survive.

Major D'bag's trial is coming up quick.  Does anybody else think seeking the death penalty is a bad idea? (even if justified)  Could they sentence him to something like 20 years of hard labor for each victim, sentences to be served sequentially?  It would reduce the chance of his conviction being overturned on appeal, and it denies him the chance to be a martyr.

Lock 'im up for the rest of his life, and then some.  He doesn't even get out to be buried until his full sentence is up.

[Tallpine]

It's funny how we can drone-kill people without a trial, but this for certain guilty terrorist will get twenty years of apppeals 

[vaskidmark]

For a workplace violence incident there sure is a lot of concern about this guy becoming a religious martyr.

And I'm going to throw another bucket of gasoline on that fire by saying The Government ought to take all steps possible to avoid him becoming some sort of martry - going so far as to do weekly press releases of him making little rocks out of big rocks.  The Government ought to make it as easy as possible for supporters/worshipers/followers to visit him - even to the point of setting up a shuttle bus service and pre-inspection before arriving at the prison.  I am sure The Government can, for the shuttle run, get ahold of a Blue Bird school bus that meets all current federal safety regulations.  This plan does not add to the federal deficit by way of pension liabilities, as they can hire part-time TSA agents to do the security checks before anybody was allowed on the bus.

"I'm sorry, but your water bottle is 1/2-fluid ounce over the allowable size.  However, you will be glad to hear that we found nothing wrong with your travel size bottle of nitroglycerine.  Have a nice trip.  Your bottle of ricin seemed to be leaking, so we put it in a baggie for you."

stay safe.