Installing hardwood flooring?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Thinking of installing my own hardwood flooring. 

Has anyone done this job before?  Is it easy?  Hard?  How'd it turn out?

[Grandpa Shooter]

Depends on what type you are talking about.  I have been fixing houses for a lot of years and there is a big difference in flooring as well as how the job comes out depending on the subfloor  Are you talking real honest to goodness interlocking hardwood boards, or the newfangled synthetic stuff they call flooring?

[Balog]

Also, how difficult is it to refinish real hardwood floors? Does it always involve nasty chemicals?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Are you talking real honest to goodness interlocking hardwood boards, or the newfangled synthetic stuff they call flooring?

I'm not rightly sure what the difference is.  

I know they make fake wood-looking stuff that goes down more like linoleum.  That's not what I want.  I want real wood looking back at me when I look down at my floor.  I want a beautiful tree ripped out of the forest and spread across my floor so that I get to enjoy its beauty.

I've seen some wood flooring products that are made of synthetic or particle-based planks with a pre-finished veneer of wood over the top.  Supposedly they work better than 100% wood, because the structure of the board is better suited for bearing loads, and they're cheaper because they're notmade of the expensive stuff all the way through.  Or maybe that's just marketing hype, I dunno.  Anyway, I'd be OK with just a top layer of real wood over a base of some other substance.

I'm not sure what the subfloor is made of.  Probably concrete slab.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Also, how difficult is it to refinish real hardwood floors? Does it always involve nasty chemicals?

What you have to do with a real hardwood floor depends on what finish it has and how it was installed.  Can you access it from the basement?  What surface is it down over?  Is any of it warping and rising?  The simplest approach is to rent a floor sander from a good building materials company and VERY carefully sand it down to a uniform finish and appearance.  That involves some hard work and good skills on your part.  The sander is only a tool YOU are controlling.  Dally too long on any one spot and you can ruin the floor.  Start with a medium grit and go to a finer grit for a truly smooth finish.  Involves a lot of sweeping and vacuuming to keep the sawdust from piling up and ruining your job.  There is no point to sanding sawdust.

You can restore good hardwood to a beautiful finish with enough patience and hard work.  Doing so is not easy and can test any marriage (depending on whether she helps or not)

[Grandpa Shooter]

I'm not rightly sure what the difference is.  

I know they make fake wood-looking stuff that goes down more like linoleum.  That's not what I want.  I want real wood looking back at me when I look down at my floor.  I want a beautiful tree ripped out of the forest and spread across my floor so that I get to enjoy its beauty.

I've seen some wood flooring products that are made of synthetic or particle-based planks with a veneer of wood over the top.  Supposedly they work better than 100% wood, because the structure of the board is better suited for bearing loads, and they're cheaper because they're notmade of the expensive stuff all the way through.  Or maybe that's just marketing hype, I dunno.  Anyway, I'd be OK with just a top layer of real wood over a base of some other substance.

I'm not sure what the subfloor is made of.  Probably concrete slab.

Real hardwood flooring is boards 5/8" to 3/4" thick and from 2" to 4+" wide.  It typically is what is called tongue in groove (no, not what you just flashed on ) and is installed over floor joists as the only flooring, or on a wood subfloor, as it must be nailed in place as you progress across and along the floor.  Real hardwood interlocking flooring is NOT cheap or easy to install.

The synthetic flooring is typically a composite material with a very thin (maybe 4 mil) top layer bonded to it which at a glance looks like wood.  It is NOT real wood and is subject to such things as humidity, water spillage, extreme changes in ambient temperature (as in vacation houses in the mountains).  If you were to buy the type with a padding material bonded to it, it can be installed over a sound subfloor of most any type.  Otherwise you would have to lay down a padding material sold separately (either foam or rag sheeting) and then install the flooring being careful to allow room for expansion and contraction.  It is NOT advisable to install it in bathrooms, kitchens, basements, or near unshielded exterior doors.  I have replaced way too many floors for people who didn't bother to read, or didn't understand the limitations of the modern flooring.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Hmm.  The veneered stuff I'm thinking of has a top layer of real wood and is at least 1/16" or 1/8" thick.  So it's much thicker than 4 mil.  It's made out of t&g boards, it's just that the boards aren't the same wood all the way through.  Instead of having boards that are 5/8 thick pieces of solid red oak (or whatever), you get a 5/8" thick board that's a layer 1/8" red oak on top of 1/2" of some kind of substrate, maybe laminated wood or some synthetic.

Anyway, how's it work if you're installing the real, 100% solid wood stuff?

[Standing Wolf]

It typically is what is called tongue in groove...

"Tongue and groove," and it looks considerably easier to lay evenly and without squeaks than it is.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Hmm.  The veneered stuff I'm thinking of has a top layer of real wood and is at least 1/16" or 1/8" thick.  So it's much thicker than 4 mil.  It's made out of t&g boards, it's just that the boards aren't the same wood all the way through.  Instead of having boards that are 5/8 thick pieces of solid red oak (or whatever), you get a 5/8" thick board that's a layer 1/8" red oak on top of 1/2" of some kind of substrate, maybe laminated wood or some synthetic.

Anyway, how's it work if you're installing the real, 100% solid wood stuff?

I just googled "installing hardwood flooring" and it came up with links to the major types of installations for it.  You could get more info faster there than the slow rate I type at.  In my opinion it is not fun or easy.  I don't do much of it anymore due to the stress on my knees.  I do stuff at home at my own pace, but don't do flooring much anymore even at home.  With three or more dogs at most times, the wood flooring doesn't seem like a good choice for my place,

Research types and techniques, allow 10% overage for mistakes and damaged material and cost it out for yourself.  I grew up with hardwood floors and love them, but don't consider them very practical in most applications.

[Hawkmoon]

Hmm.  The veneered stuff I'm thinking of has a top layer of real wood and is at least 1/16" or 1/8" thick.  So it's much thicker than 4 mil.  It's made out of t&g boards, it's just that the boards aren't the same wood all the way through.  Instead of having boards that are 5/8 thick pieces of solid red oak (or whatever), you get a 5/8" thick board that's a layer 1/8" red oak on top of 1/2" of some kind of substrate, maybe laminated wood or some synthetic.

Anyway, how's it work if you're installing the real, 100% solid wood stuff?

THe pre-fab stuff you're discussing uses no fasteners. The joints aren't tongue-and-groove, they are interlocking such that once you snap two pieces together and lay the second one flat, they can't come apart. You leave a quarter-inch space along the wall for expansion, start on one side of the room, and snap your way across until you get to the opposite wall. Sorta like Legos or Lincoln Logs.

The real stuff is a lot more work.You still need a space at the starting edge for expansion. The groove edge faces the wall. You run a shim/spacer along the wall to maintain the space. The board is nailed down driving the nail at a 45-degree angle through the corner formed by the top of the tongue and the main body of the board. Once the first board is nailed down, the next board has to be shoved tightly against it, then nailed in the same fashion. For small areas I've used a short length of the same flooring with the tongue cut off to fit over the tongue of the one I'm laying and then I tap it into place. They make tools for levering the board tightly into place before nailing. If you're going to do a large room, the tool is a good idea.

There are no chemicals involved in finishing OR refinishing a real hardwood floor. Just a sanding machine, and LOTS of dust.

Here's a do-it-youself article. I take exception to using finishing nails, though. Real flooring nails are tapered, cut nails that are made of harder steel than finishing nails, which bend if you look at them cross-eyed.
http://www.hometips.com/diy-how-to/installing-hardwood-floors.html

[Gowen]

There are quite a few videos on youtube for it.  It doesn't look hard at all.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

some of the new polyurethanes give awesome wear but give off toxic fumes during dry time.
prefinished hardwood isn't too hard its the details that jam folks up  like allowing for an outa square room or fixing poorly installed subfloor. or trimming the door jambs and fitting the piece that goes into the doorway when you try to go into multiple rooms without a break.  you can't do the floating floors in huge areas without a break for expansion.  some of the engineered products you can sand once or twice to refinish.  the snap and lock foating floors are easy but have a few pitfalls too folks bugger up the edge trying to bang em together the product under the laminate is actually pretty soft. i did much of my house in ceramic tile with patterns in the layout  dog proof and i use carpet remnants in rooms over the tile  when they get beyond the pale they go in the trash.
the floating floors padding isn't cheap either and its worth buyin the better padding for both carpet and floating floors

[grampster]

If you google floor tile, you'll find there are some ceramic tiles or porcelain tiles that look like wood.  Our house is mostly tile and you can't beat it for ease of keeping clean and it never wears out; virtually maintenance free.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i am a scrounge i paid more for thinset and underlayment than i did for the tile
often the good pad for a floating floor is as much as the laminate
i have done some nice engineered wood floors with a tacket brand

[BrokenPaw]

I've done my entire kitchen, dining room, and living room in bamboo hardwood, and it wasn't particularly difficult (except for removing the glue from the subfloor where the old vinyl floor was, and removing the 400000 staples where the old carpet padding was tacked down), it was just labor-intensive.

I rented a pneumatic floor stapler from Home Depot, for something like $40/day, and hooked it up to my compressor.  It makes things a heck of a lot easier; you set the board in place and tap it until it's snug, then you set the stapler against the tongue and whack it with a mallet, and it simultaneously sets the board in tight, and then fires a staple through the tongue at a 45-degree angle into the subfloor.  Once I got into a rhythm, I was able to put down a plank about every 10 seconds, with BrokenMa setting and tapping each one into place, and then me following along with the stapler.  The only time we had to slow down was when we were near walls at the ends of the run (because you have to trim boards for length there) and at the front and back of the run (because the stapler requires a certain amount of free space to operate, so if you're too close to a wall, you have to go back to manual nailing).

If you go this route, a word to the wise:  Strike the stapler soundly with the mallet, because if you strike a glancing or light blow, the stapler will only fire a half-charge of air, and the staple will only go in about halfway.  And they're a bitch to get out, and even worse to try to bang the rest of the way in by hand.

-BP

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thats why i keep my old non air tool  it lets you hit em twice if need be

[GigaBuist]

I did a laminate floor in my basement back in February.  It wasn't bad at all and that stuff is tough.  Kinda important when you have dogs in the house that like to skid across non carpeted floors.

My brother has laminate flooring in a lot of his house too. Unfortunately his roommate is a bit of a doof that tends to ruin stuff.  The dolt managed to take a chunk out of the floor and wouldn't admit to it. I watched my brother start dropping soup cans on the busted up board in frustration wondering just how much force one needed to even dent the stuff.  Soup cans wouldn't do it.  In the end we figured out that the roommate had dropped a 75 pound dumbell to cause the damage.

[p12]

The wife and I put down about 900 sf of lamanet (fake wood) flooring. Never again. Period. Hardest home improvement job I've ever done. I'd rather take a butt whoop'n before doing that again.

Laid some real wood (finished upper layer over plywood) on a cement floor. Glued it down.

Piece of cake. Love it. No hollow sounds while walking.

It was the Bellawood stuff from Lumber Liquidators. Quality control was a bit lacking, but if someone is looking that close at my floor then I'm not a very good entertainer.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The glue down install was easier than laminate?  The stuff I've read said that glue downs were difficult.

[Leatherneck]

I've just finished installing about 1,500 sq ft of solid Brazilian Cherry planks and finishing them. Bought a refurbished pneumatic nailer from Amazon which I'll sell for what I paid for it soon.

3/4-inch T&G planks over 3/4-inch subfloor on 2x10 joists on 12' centers. 30-lb felt on top of the subfloor. sic coats of Varethane poly finish.

It wasn't technically difficult, but it was a tedious, back-aching job. Beautiful though, and well worth the labor and backaches.

My understanding is that on a slab, a floating floor of prefinished engineered wood-veneer flooring is the way to go. I don't care for floating wood floors though.

TC

ETA: I found as good a deal by shopping locally than I could get at Lumber Liquidators, and with much better quality wood.