Author Topic: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)  (Read 9907 times)

Snowdog

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Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« on: November 20, 2009, 07:21:18 AM »
Ok, boredom will do this to some people and I'm working the graveyard shift.

A coworker and I were talking about ancient civilizations and got onto the subject of armor.  He's knowledgeable about the middle ages and the weapons and armor of that time period.  I'm more of a fan of ancient Rome.  After talking about the near invincibility of the medieval knight and full plate mail, he began picking apart the “weaknesses” in the armor of the Roman legionnaire, specifically their torso armor (lorica segmentata).  He’s under the impression that an upward thrust of a short sword made for stabbing such as the Roman gladius would slip between the overlapping segments and pierce the torso.  I believe such a maneuver, if possible, would be quite difficult to execute while trying to parry the legionnaire’s sword thrusts as well as the spear thrust from the legionnaire behind him. I also wonder if he forgot about the legionnaire's scutum, a near full-body shield.

He goes on to say a knight could take on three to five legionnaires had they ever spanned the millennium and met in battle due to the imperviousness of the knight’s full plate.  I tried to explain to him that a cohort of legionnaires would prove way too much for 100 knights, especially taking into account the methodical and disciplined way the legion would engage their enemy in battle.  He went on to say that while the legionnaires would be desperately trying to find weaknesses in the knight’s armor, the knight would be capitalizing on the unarmored legs, arms and lower abdomen of the legionnaire.

I’m assuming he hadn’t taken into account the inhuman stamina needed to keep up such a fight in such heavy armor, but here are my two primary questions:

Does lorica segmentata have such a weakness and if so, why hadn’t this been addressed by Rome during the centuries it had been used?

Also, are knights as impervious to period weapons used by Rome?  For goodness sake, the Romans had tempered steel!

For giggles, if you were wager on the victor if 100 knights using 14th century armor and weapons were to encounter a cohort of 4th century legionnaires on some grassy field using whatever tactics and weaponry in which they were trained, who would get your nod?  What numbers would make for more of a fair fight if the odds seem lopsided?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 07:25:33 AM by Snowdog »

MillCreek

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 08:33:48 AM »
I would actually bet on the Roman legionnaires in this scenario.  They are carrying a much lighter load, are more maneuverable and were typically better trained in small-unit tactics.  I don't think the minimal metallurgical superiority of the knight's weapons and armor would outweigh the advantages of the legionnaires.  A fully-armored knight is going to be far less maneuverable and tire much quicker than the Roman soldier.  I suspect that a two-handed broadsword may easily slice through Roman armor, but could be stopped by a shield and by the time you have wound up with your broadsword, the Romans have already stuck you like a pig multiple times with the short and manueverable gladius.  A gladius may or may not be able to penetrate plate, but the joints and seams of plate armor are the weakest point.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 09:14:00 AM »
THe chief advantge of knights in warfare was neither armour nor sword, it was their warhorses. There is repeated historical evidence of knights defeating infantry by just running into them in a mass horse charge. A knight's horse was a heavy, violent animal that could kill two or three men by trampling and biting them before the knight ever drew his sword.

A cohort of infantry is about a hundred men. They would neither be able to present a mass united front against an equal amount of cavalry, nor to turn quickly enough to avoid cavalry striking them from right flank, where they had no shields. This is not projection - the Roman legions had special cavalry units to protect them from this very problem.

Without combined arms, the cohort would be broken like so much bowling pins.
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MillCreek

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 09:23:15 AM »
My response was predicated on both sides being on foot. 
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Snowdog

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 09:59:13 AM »
Good responses!  Yes, the knight advocate I work with was quite adamant the knight's victory would be possible on foot.  I believe his thought process was no matter the angle the of legionnaire's attack, and regardless whether with gladius or pilum (despite both having tempered iron or steel tips), no attack would be effective... at least not until several legionnaires have fallen before any epiphany/discovery of weakness.
I disagree of course. I do believe the Romans, especially by the 4th century, would have encountered occasions where a Celt would have entered the fray with something other than leather armor or hodgepodge ring/chain/plate mail and have a decent idea how to proceed against it. However, I've been wrong before. 

I recently read that legionnaires were expected to be in excellent physical condition with stamina being one of their greatest virtues.  I understand they were typically able to march 18 miles in 5 hours in full battle gear. If this is accurate, I'd imagine there would be some flanking going on, due in part to their superior agility.  I guess the helmets knights wore could have also factored in by possibly restricting their field of view, increasing the likelihood of being flanked.

One factor I'm unsure about is if knights were known to fight as a unit.  I suppose that would have made a difference.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 10:04:18 AM by Snowdog »

SADShooter

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 10:06:01 AM »
Even assuming the knights are on horseback, we've so far neglected the influence of the pilum, which could help blunt a charge, and the fact that the Romans did have exposure to heavy cavalry. That said, as Micro points out the scenario takes the individual troops out of their tactical context in terms of formation and support units. Within the stated limits, I'd give an edge to the knights due to mobility and weapon range, but it wouldn''t necessarily be easy.

ETA: Snowdog and I cross-posted. Assuming the knights are afoot, it's a bloody wash. Knights' armor and weapons are superior, but they wouldn't have the formation discipline of the Romans, which would allow them to better exploit the ebb and flow of melee.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:54:41 AM by SADShooter »
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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 10:07:59 AM »
Consider that in modern warfare, heavily-armored war vehicles have correspondingly-heavy engines to move them around; you don't hang Abrams-level armor on a Humvee; it'd never be able to move in any useful way.

A knight in full plate armor, off his warhorse, is a liability, not an asset.  The only reason all that armor was practical was because there was a warhorse to haul him around.

On foot, without ranged weaponry, the more maneuverable guy is going to win.

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 10:10:04 AM »
Mightymouse would totally put the beat-down on Superman. =D

My money is on the Roman legionnaires.  My vast experience is limited to movies and various Renaissance Fairs (which for some reason have jousting knights on horseback...anachronistic IMO)... but all I ever see knights do is stumble around clumsily in 200 pounds of armor, blindly swinging a massive sword with little technical aptitude.

A hard nut to crack, sure:  but all it takes is one weak seam in the armor.  If that body inside isn't at 100% effectiveness, it becomes anchored by all that steel.  Nick a knee or elbow tendon and you have greatly reduced the effectiveness of that knight.
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Firethorn

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 11:25:54 AM »
A knight in full plate armor, off his warhorse, is a liability, not an asset.  The only reason all that armor was practical was because there was a warhorse to haul him around.

You have to be careful even here.  A lot of people equate 'full plate armor' not to field plate worn to war, but to tourney plate worn in competitions.

Tourney plate is far heavier.  Provides more protection, but is impractical for anything but short term events where you're actually trying to reduce injuries/deaths.  Field plate provides a better compromise between maneuverability and protection.

Personally, I think it'd be bloody.  Results depend more on who you're using as your 'knight' template - there are units that fall within the 'knight' class that are far more effective on foot than others.

roo_ster

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 12:48:38 PM »
There are some misconceptions that need to be dealt with.

First off, which knight from which era?
Late MA & early Renaissance
Mid-MA
Early MA / Late antiquity / Dark Ages
(I am only going to cover the best armors from each era.  There were plenty others.)

Late / High MA & Early Ren
Late middle ages & early renaissance had the best danged armor vs muscle-powered weapons seen in the history of mankind.  It was so danged good that later jousting armor did away with the shield and just thickened up the shield-side a bit.  The jousting armor was pretty heavy and specialized. 

The field plate armor, though, was a wondrous thing.  It likley massed less than the best/heaviest armors that preceded it.  It was custom-made for the knight and less restrictive than those earlier armors.  Contrary to popular belief, many battles were fought with the knightly class dismounted on purpose, as it made sense in some circumstances to have the heaviest of heavy infantry rather than heavy cavalry...especially since even heavy cavalry is no match against well-trained and disciplined infantry that does not lose heart (more on that later).

The pinnacle of plate armor development was similar to the pinnacle of automotive development:
* Better protection
* Lighter
* More mobile
* Near-ideal weight-distro

Mid MA
The best armors were usually chain mail and then chain with some plate armor.  Sometimes brigandine under plate.  Not a unified plate system as came later, but more piecemeal with plates covering what is easiest to cover with plates:
* breast plate
* back
* some arm & leg bits
All the joints & tough-to-cover bits were covered in mail or brigandine

Much less integrated than the later plates.  Very much a transitional phase (between mail and plate).  Most likely the totality was heavier, less-balanced, and less protectives than the plates that followed.

Early MA back to Late Antiquity (Dark Ages)
Charlemagne instituted arms control.  He did not want either the compound, recurved bow or chain mail to be exported from his realm, as their technological superiority gave him an advantage.

Chain mail / lorica hamata dates back to the Roman Republic and its use waxed & waned over time until it slowly replaced the (superior to mail) "banded" / lorica segmata and scale / lrica squamata.

Carolingian heavy/med-heavy cavalry was truly formidable, as it was relatively heavily armored (mail), had the stirrup, lance, & long/broad sword, as well as the compound recurved bow.   The knightly clas, though, started off as heavy infantry before the battle of Tours and learned a trick or two after they beat back the Moors.

Byzantium & Points East
These guys never went whole-hog into the plate and heavier armors.  They had some well-made heavier armors, but they were less protective and a bit more flexible during most the MAs relative to the West.  The Byzantines held on to splint/lorica squamata for a lot longer than the West.

Infantry vs Cavalry
With muscle-powered or black-powder-powered arms, the advantage lies with the infantry.  The more trained and more disciplined the infantry, the less likely cavalry is going to overrun them.

Most middle-ages infantry was, to be blunt, *expletive deleted*it.  Usually levies called up with little/no training and very poorly armed.  There just was no money to keep an infantry army trained and equipped.  It was against just this sort of infantry that the knightly heavy cavalry made its name.  As soon as the economy/polity got to the point where it could support well-trained & equipped infantry, the cavalry charge was neutered. 

Examples of this are seen in 16th century Italy & later 17th century north with the warring (but prosperous) city-states.  The cavalry was reduced the caracole (1) in the face of the infantry tercio(2), which could withstand a cavalry charge as long as numbers weren't too out of whack or the infantry lost its morale. 

The calculus usually went thus:
1. In the space one cavalryman needed to operate, there are several infantrymen.  Muscle-power or black-powder, the cavalryman is going to have several spear-heads or round balls seeking his vitals.
2. Warhorses are serious critters, heavy, and can do some damage.  But, horses are also the most delicate beasts of burden and the most vulnerable bit of the knight's equipage. 
3. If the infantry had time to prepare the battlefield (fieldworks: spikes, trenches, etc.) the infantry could funnel the cavalry or blunt their charge before it got to the infantry.  Which is why many times, the knights went afoot, as they knew they'd be useless in a cavalry charge.  They were then the best infantry on the field.



Regarding the OP: Legionnaire vs Knight

Any all-infantry matchup I would give toe the legionnaires, not contest.  Rome produced the best infantry on the face of the Earth over the longest time.  Unless the legion picked was an outlier, they will have been trained, equipped, and blooded.  Most importantly, they had discipline and worked as a unit their entire military career.
 
One-on-one, knight vs legionnaire, likley would go to the knight, though.  The knight was upper class, usually better fed during development and likely larger than the average leginnaire.  Also, he was born to fight, not just well-trained.  Last, the later knights would have a material advantage, given plate armor.

If it was knightly cavalry vs legion, I would still likely give the advantage to the legion.  It is not as if Rome never fought (& defeated) cavalry.  They did so all the way to the Tigris & Euphrates and never went whole-hog for cavalry.

The late MA knight did have a few advantages relative to that other cavalry.  The stirrup & lance combo as well as improvements in material equipage were significant improvements over ancient cavalry.

I still think the drill & discipline of th legion would win out over the material advantages of the knight, however.

I think the most difficult of hte knightly types for a legion to handle would NOT be the later, highest-technology knight.  I think it would be the early Carolingian knight inthe era between Charles the Hammer and Charles the Great.  They knew heavy infantry tactics & discipline, had the stirrup & lance, and also had the compound recurved bow.  I think they would give hte legion a run for its money.







(1) Charge massed infantry, discharge horse pistols, hope infantry scatters.  If they remain unimpressed with the minor nobleman's pretty horsey & noisy entrance and don't scatter, the cavalry turns about and reloads.  This develops into a wheel-like formation where the cavalry shoots, turns about, reloads on horseback, and then takes another charge.  Works OK as harassment unless the infantry pikemen are backed by arquebus-armed infantry.

(2) Think "combined arms pike square."  Some tote long spears, some had swords, some had arquebuses.  All drilled to move as one unit


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MechAg94

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 01:45:26 PM »
As others have said, I have heard that infantry plate armor was not near as heavy or restrictive as most think.  Plus the guys using it trained in this stuff all their lives and knew how to use it to their advantage.  

One point made above is what I have heard before.  Cavalry will not charge through/over a determined and disciplined infantry formation.  Horses aren't suicidal and war horses are valuable.  They will slaughter them if they run, but if they don't, I would think Roman infantry would know how to take down cavalry.  The Romans were accustomed to fighting opponents with longer swords and such as well.  It shouldn't be anything new to them.  A last point was the Romans were traditionally good at building field fortifications. 

I also thought the Romans made use of chain mail in their armor later in the Empire though I have heard the average equipment of the legions deteriorated as the Empire was in decline.
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roo_ster

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 01:55:45 PM »
I also thought the Romans made use of chain mail in their armor later in the Empire though I have heard the average equipment of the legions deteriorated as the Empire was in decline.

Chain mail predates lorica segmata and lorica segmata is superior to chain.  The use predominance was:
chain, then
ls, then
chain

SO, the answer, I think, is that chain was used when Rome was poorer and LS when Rome was richer.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 01:57:02 PM »
Lorica segmentata is the proper name.

Also, is the chainmail used by, say, 12th-century knights identical in quality to early Roman chainmail?
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SADShooter

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 02:10:07 PM »
I would think so. The metallurgical requirements for extruding/riveting the rings and assembly likely didn't change much.

(edit fur speelin)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 03:44:09 PM by SADShooter »
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 03:35:48 PM »
 [popcorn]
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lupinus

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 05:15:23 PM »
In regards to plate armor being heavy, the average suit of field armor weighed under a hundred pounds, often under 80, and a well made suit of armor would spread the weight out over much of the body.

That said, it had its weaknesses and could be exploited.

At the very least I call it a fare fight on foot with a legion having the advantage against a group of mounted knights. Single knight on horse vs. single roman soldier though? Knight easily.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2009, 06:20:52 PM »
It is easier and cheaper to field infantry.  You get a lot more infantry for your "buck" than you do heavy horsemen.  And the Romans were much better at logistics and infrastructure and support than the typical medieval kingdom, so they'd have a lot more "bucks" to spend.

I tend to think the Roman generals were better at strategy.  I've read the Gallic commentaries, and I thought it was pretty impressive all around.  I haven't seen anything comparable coming from a medieval mind.

So I'd wager that the average single knight could probably defeat the average legionary in combat, but the medieval king would definitely lose the war.

Of course the Romans had horsemen, too.  It wouldn't be a strictly infantry vs cavalry type of affair.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 06:31:51 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

lupinus

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2009, 07:36:15 PM »
This is true, they did. But the Equitates were fairly light cavalry useful for running off light infantry and missile units and screening and such. Most of their cavalry were hired or from conquered areas.

And while the Romans had some very good Generals, all great cultures had them. But tactics were still, for the most part, line up and hack away at the other guy. The Romans simply excelled at doing this orderly and as a cohesive wall.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2009, 07:52:35 PM »
Full plate armor used in battlefield conditions was actually more comfortable than chainmail because of weight distribution. Chainmailed knights could not fight for long, because the armor wore them down pretty badly. After a couple of hours in the armor, they needed rest. That is one of the chief technical reasons for encastlation in medieval Europe starting in IX c. - chainmailed knights needed someplace to rest.

Another technological consideration is the incredibly high quality of the steel used in the late middle ages. The smiths could make much tougher armor weigh much less by metallurgical processes of repeated hardening. I am not a specialist in the field, but the idea is similar to the folding the Japanese swordsmiths used for katanas. So a full plate could weigh 40 to 60 pounds with excellent distribution and personal fitting. Against such armor, the weaponsmiths could do only two things - make sharp piercing points to pick at joints or make pickaxes meant to crack straight through the plate. That is why the swords in the late middle ages are so narrow and long - they are not meant to be used as slashing weapons.

By comparison, a legionnaire had the gladius. The good news is it was also a piercing weapon. The bad news is I very much doubt its piercing point was strong enough to pierce joints easily. My guess is it was not.

So, my conclusion is that the Roman would have been at a SEVERE technological disadvantage. One-on-one, a Roman would likely lose. Only an extremely brave, dextrous, and strong legionnaire would battle those odds. If I were him, I'd drop my armor to gain extra speed, then use my shield as a bashing weapon to drop the knight off his feet, disarm him, pull his helmet off and slit his throat. Exchanging blows conventional-style would likely get me killed due to the tech disadvantage.

But, the original question posed Romans : knights = 10:1 and on foot. In that case, I think it will be a bloody mess that can go either way. Romans had far better unit organization, which might compensate for the tech disadvantage. For example, they might use their shields and spears to ward off the knights until the knights get tired. The numbers advantage would allow them to replace their point-men every 30 sec, while the knights would have no replacements. Conversely, smart knights knowing this would try to use their small numbers to overwhelm a wing and break up the unit structure quickly, before numbers and fatigue wear them down.

If you are interested in weird tech matchups, read up on the crusades. Armored knights in small numbers vs unarmored horsemen in larger numbers. For example you can read Villardouin's work. Another example is the 1204 battle at Adrianopolis between the knights of the Fourth Crusade and the locals. The locals lured the knights into marshy land and then used their shepherd staves to pull down the knights from their horses before slitting their throats.

The bottom line is that technological differences usually form an important but not central or overwhelming advantage in muscle-powered warfare.

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2009, 08:23:06 PM »
Lorica segmentata is the proper name.

Also, is the chainmail used by, say, 12th-century knights identical in quality to early Roman chainmail?

Thanks.  All that Latin is Greek to me.

The Roman stuff was iron.

I can't recall if the medieval stuff was iron or steel.
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roo_ster

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2009, 08:41:42 PM »
Great scot, it is the poster of Christmas' past!

IIRC, the preferred technique with the gladius was the thrust.

The Romans had the pilum & hasta as well.  Either could be used to receive a charge and the pilum could be used at range to un-shield (hit on shiled usually rended it useless) and dis-mount a knight (by killing his horse).  Same thing with the plumb-something-or-other, essentially military Jarts tossed at distance.

The pilum was designed with a tiny head & metal shaft to penetrate rather then cut.  If the gladius was not up to the task, the pilum could be brought to bear.

So, now the cavalry force is partly infantry and likely doesn't have a shiled.
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roo_ster

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CAnnoneer

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2009, 08:53:43 PM »
Great scot, it is the poster of Christmas' past!

I see the gang is alive and kicking.

Quote
If the gladius was not up to the task, the pilum could be brought to bear.

That is not what I know. The point of the pilum was to disorganize the opponent and/or to get itself lodged in the opponent's shield. That would make the shield very awkward to use, essentially destroying most of its melee defensive value. For the purpose, the end of the pilum was made relatively soft, so that it bends and weighs down the shield. Such a soft point would have no chance against full plate.

Snowdog

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2009, 10:57:30 PM »
I was under the impression that Rome was aware of steel and implemented its use in some of their weapons. Heck, I just finished watching a Lock 'n Load where Ermey spoke of the steel used in the blade of the Roman Gladius (granted though, this really proves nothing). 
There's been some speculation it seems whether Rome knowingly created steel weapons or simply used wrought iron that was by chance introduced to carbon through use of coal from their furnances, though I doubt anyone can say Rome didn't know how to make a good sword.

Below is a excerpt I found on the interwebznet at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiusfor those interested.

Quote
A recent metallurgical study of two Etruria swords, one in the form of a Greek kopis from 7th century BC Vetulonia, and one in the form of a gladius Hispaniensis from 4th century BC Chiusa, gives some insight concerning the manufacture of Roman swords.[8] The Chiusa sword comes from Romanized Etruria; thus, regardless of the names of the forms (which the authors do not identify), the authors believe the process was continuous from the Etruscans to the Romans.

The Vetulonian sword was crafted by the pattern welding process from five blooms reduced at a temperature of 1163 °C. Five strips of varying carbon content were created. A central core of the sword contained the highest: 0.15–0.25% carbon. On its edges were placed four strips of low-carbon steel, 0.05–0.07%, and the whole thing was welded together by forging on the pattern of hammer blows. A blow increased the temperature sufficiently to produce a friction weld at that spot. Forging continued until the steel was cold, producing some central annealing. The sword was 58 cm long.[8]

The Chiusian sword was created from a single bloom by forging from a temperature of 1237 °C. The carbon content increased from 0.05–0.08% at the back side of the sword to 0.35–0.4% on the blade, from which the authors deduce some form of carburization may have been used.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 03:58:39 AM by Snowdog »

roo_ster

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2009, 11:12:03 PM »
IIRC, the pilum was a penetration weapon with a very small head designed to completely pierce the shield of infantry or the corset of mounted troops.

I would be interested in an analysis of hte difficulty of completely piercing a Roman-era shield versus piercing the various top-end medieval armors (chain, plate backed by mail, later plate).

Of course, piercing the horsey would not be a problem.

Regards,

roo_ster

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Re: Unusual question (concerning Romans and knights)
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2009, 11:36:52 PM »
Roman javelins were designed to break or bend on impact.  They also had tips that prevented them from being pulled out of shields or bodies or whatnot.  This was to prevent the enemy from removing them from their skewered comrades and throwing them back at the Romans.

I doubt a knight do any better when struck by one of these spears than the Roman era "recipients".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum
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Thanks in part to experimental archaeology, it is generally believed that the pilum's design evolved to be armour-piercing: the pyramidal head would punch a small hole through an enemy shield allowing the thin shank to pass through and penetrate a distance sufficient to hit the target. The thick wooden shaft provided the weight behind the punch.

In one description, one of the two iron nails that held the iron shaft in place was replaced with a weak wooden pin that would break on impact causing the shaft to twist sideways. Gaius Marius is sometimes given credit for this modification.[5] Most later pila were constructed such that the iron shank would bend on impact; early pila do not seem to have had this characteristic. A pilum, having penetrated a shield through a small hole and its shank having bent would now be difficult to remove. It is likely that the shaft would hit the ground and thus stop the charging enemy in his tracks.

Further injury would occur if the enemy did not discard the shield quickly enough or if he was "bumped" into the head by collision from the rear. An enemy, if not killed by the pilum, would have little time before closing with the legionaries and would have to discard his now-unwieldy shield before going into combat. Additionally, bent pila would be less suitable for reuse by a resourceful opponent. Opinion among archaeologists used to be that the main function of the shank was to disable the pilum by bending, but it is now thought that the pilum was a weapon designed primarily to kill, the 'non-return' aspect being a bonus.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:45:35 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »