Indoor propane heaters

[makattak]

As my wife and I are moving into our new condo, I'd like to make sure we can keep her turtles from dying in the case of a power outage.

Seeing as a number of you have experience with such things, I ask:

What safe indoor propane heaters would you all recommend that we could put in their room in case of a power outage?

I'm looking at this one right now.

[AZRedhawk44]

Why not just a candle or two next to their tank?  That keeps temperatures up in a room, if ambient outside is 50 or so and you want a particular room to be more comfortable.

What's the temperature requirements, and where do you live?

[makattak]

Why not just a candle or two next to their tank?  That keeps temperatures up in a room, if ambient outside is 50 or so and you want a particular room to be more comfortable.

What's the temperature requirements, and where do you live?

Northern Virginia area. Temperature (of the water) must be ~70 degrees. I'm guessing we may get a lot of snow this winter and fear some power outages my result. The condo is fully electric.

Their tank is 40 gallons. I'm doubting a candle will work for that...

[makattak]

Also, I'm not opposed to options other than propane. I'm just looking for an alternative in case of power outage.

[Grandpa Shooter]

I don't want to doom this thread by commenting, but you do deserve an experienced answer.

I have and use three so called infrared heaters which are propane powered.  I always get one with a thermostat so I can adjust it accordingly.  They are all ventless heaters and are highly efficient.  The only requirement is that you have a source of fresh air.  All of mine have a sensor to turn the heater off if the oxygen starts to become depleted.  Once that happens you would have to open a window to allow fresh air otherwise the heater can not be restarted.

Ventless propane heaters are a common sorce of heat in the Southwest and are not the scary heating appliance some would have you believe.  Mine are all Empire brand and are not cheap, but I am satisfied with their performance.  They can be run off a barbeque tank and pressure regulator, or plumbed into a source if one is available.  It is advisable to not have the tank indoors, but that is your call.

[CNYCacher]

Not to threadjack, but non-vented fuel-burning heaters don't produce carbon monoxide when they have adequate oxygen available, correct?

[Silver Bullet]

Mr. Heater is the one I would get, having looked into this a while back.

I would take two additional precautions:  a carbon monoxide alarm, and I would crack the window an inch.

The issue with these things isn't carbon monoxide (if they're working properly), it's that they consume oxygen.  The oxygen content of your air can drop to levels that would make you sick or worse, which is why I would open a window a bit, to keep the air's oxygen content safe.

I believe Mr. Buddy has an automatic shutoff if the oxygen level drops too low, but do your own investigation.

[Jamisjockey]

Where in NoVA are you?
FYI, most of the power around here is buried.  We rarely see winter outages. 

[Fjolnirsson]

The Big Buddy is the one I have, love it. That's an EXCELLENT price, by the way!

[alex_trebek]

Please note that the heater you selected requires a power supply if you want to use the blower. I would reccommend that you have insulation ready to put around the tank, and look for electric heaters that can run on batteries.

With a 5C temp difference your tank will lose 1.4 kW of energy due to conduction at steady-state. This should be how much heat you input into the tank, by what ever means you choose.

I would opt for an electrical heater directly in the water, using some sort of rechargeable battery system.

[Marnoot]

Please note that the heater you selected requires a power supply if you want to use the blower.

That one can also use 4 D-cell batteries; I was just looking at the same on on Amazon last night. I'm not sure how long they'd last, but if they're wired in series for 12V, you could probably rig it to use a car battery pretty easily, too.

[Jamisjockey]

That one can also use 4 D-cell batteries; I was just looking at the same on on Amazon last night. I'm not sure how long they'd last, but if they're wired in series for 12V, you could probably rig it to use a car battery pretty easily, too.

hey, you're in utah, right?  Check the altitude requirements and interwebz feedback on heaters before you buy, some of them don't function well at altitude.

[makattak]

Where in NoVA are you?
FYI, most of the power around here is buried.  We rarely see winter outages.  

We will be moving to Reston.

Now that you mention it, I can count the number of power outages on one hand in the 10 years I've been here. Having grown up in the midwest, I simply assumed it was due to the milder winters, not buried powerlines. I never thought about the lack of power cables.

I am less worried now even though a loss of power in winter = death to our reptiles, but I still prefer a back-up plan just in case- All it would take is one day without power and they will at the very least be quite sick.

I'll investigate a battery powered heater, as well.

[Declaration Day]

If you had a smaller tank I'd suggest taping several chemical hand warmers to the outside of the glass, but 40 gallons of water is a LOT to keep warm.

I use that method to keep my drinking water from freezing in the winter while camping.

[makattak]

If you had a smaller tank I'd suggest taping several chemical hand warmers to the outside of the glass, but 40 gallons of water is a LOT to keep warm.

I use that method to keep my drinking water from freezing in the winter while camping.

That's a very good idea. We have smaller tanks we could move them to in an emergency. Looks like I have a temporary back-up plan, at least.

[Gewehr98]

I've made turtle soup with a Coleman camp stove.   

[Firethorn]

If you had a smaller tank I'd suggest taping several chemical hand warmers to the outside of the glass, but 40 gallons of water is a LOT to keep warm.

It's not so much the water as the volume.  With that much water I'd consider wrapping it up with insulating blankets.  With that the mass of water should keep it warm for a while.

Some turtles can hibernate, what kind of turtles are these?  They may be able to survive a 'cold snap' for a couple days.  Long term cold isn't good for them.

edit - I meant surface area vs volume, not just volume.  A 5k gallon tank will take a while to freeze even in sub-zero weather.  An equal volume of water in pipes could freeze in well under an hour.

[makattak]

It's not so much the water as the volume.  With that much water I'd consider wrapping it up with insulating blankets.  With that the mass of water should keep it warm for a while.

Some turtles can hibernate, what kind of turtles are these?  They may be able to survive a 'cold snap' for a couple days.  Long term cold isn't good for them.

Red Eared sliders. They can hibernate as well, but I was under the impression that it requires a gradual decrease in temperture, not a sudden drop from ~70 degrees to sub-50 degrees.  We also have a tortoise and a lizard. (My wife LOVES animals and wants to get a dog soon after we move into the condo. I want a dog, too, but I've convinced her to wait at least 6 months.) I mentioned only the turtles as I figured the 40 gallon water tank would provide the greatest challenge. The tortoise and lizard can be packed into styrofoam coolers which should retain enough heat for a few days- our vet told me that is how the zoos ship reptiles. (At least the small ones).

[mtnbkr]

Where in NoVA are you?
FYI, most of the power around here is buried.  We rarely see winter outages. 

Some parts of NoVa experience frequent power outages.  When I lived in Ashburn, a mouse fart would knock the power out.  That said, I can't recall every losing the power for more than a few minutes since moving to Manassas.

Mak, if you have natural gas service, consider one of those wall mount heaters like this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11334500&sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11334500

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Since you're only worried about the tank, what about a dedicated tank heater connected to an inverter, connected to a couple AGM 12v batteries.  Maybe toss a charge controller and solar panel in the mix for extended outages... 

Hell, put the entire mix near the tank and always on an AC battery maintainer.  Sort of an aquatic UPS...

Chris

[Tallpine]

Knit little sweaters for them 

[makattak]

Knit little sweaters for them 

Insulation only works if you have heat inside... cold blooded animals won't benefit much from extra insuluation. 

[Balog]

Insulation only works if you have heat inside... cold blooded animals won't benefit much from extra insuluation. 

Reptiles do, in fact, have heat inside. They just don't generate it. Insulation would slow down their demise. Now apologize to Tallpine and get knitting on those tiny sweaters! 

[makattak]

Reptiles do, in fact, have heat inside. They just don't generate it. Insulation would slow down their demise. Now apologize to Tallpine and get knitting on those tiny sweaters! 

Ooooo, ok. Better make them wool, too, so they retain heat better when wet. 

[Marnoot]

hey, you're in utah, right?  Check the altitude requirements and interwebz feedback on heaters before you buy, some of them don't function well at altitude.

Ah, good point; thanks. I'll have to look into that.