Author Topic: A new approach to parole  (Read 4317 times)

MillCreek

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A new approach to parole
« on: January 10, 2010, 11:08:35 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magazine/10prisons-t.html?ref=magazine

The Sunday Magazine of the NYT published an interesting article on some experiments in the penal system: immediate sanctions (arrest and jailing) for violating terms of parole upon the first violation.  There is some interesting data showing reductions in crime and prison costs as a result.

I will be interested to see any programs with verifiable data showing reduced crime rates, prolonged incarcerations and reduced justice costs.  I seriously wonder just how longer we can continue to spend on justice/jails/prisons at the current rate. 
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

roo_ster

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 03:03:43 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magazine/10prisons-t.html?ref=magazine

The Sunday Magazine of the NYT published an interesting article on some experiments in the penal system: immediate sanctions (arrest and jailing) for violating terms of parole upon the first violation.  There is some interesting data showing reductions in crime and prison costs as a result.

I will be interested to see any programs with verifiable data showing reduced crime rates, prolonged incarcerations and reduced justice costs.  I seriously wonder just how longer we can continue to spend on justice/jails/prisons at the current rate.  

It is not cheap, but it is cheaper than letting the thugs out.  "Pay me now or pay me more later."

Hey, why don't we legalize most victimless crimes and incarcerate more of the violent types?  

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roo_ster

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Standing Wolf

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 04:42:46 PM »
Quote
I seriously wonder just how longer we can continue to spend on justice/jails/prisons at the current rate.

It costs more to keep a man locked up for a year than it would to send a deserving young person to virtually any college in the nation for the same length of time.

The obvious solution, which was the norm within my lifetime, is to make prisons self-supporting.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 06:45:36 PM »
Why is this experimental?
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MillCreek

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 06:51:49 PM »
It is not cheap, but it is cheaper than letting the thugs out.  "Pay me now or pay me more later."

Hey, why don't we legalize most victimless crimes and incarcerate more of the violent types?  



I have read elsewhere that due to financial pressures and lack of space, more and more jurisdictions are reserving prison sentences for violent crimes. 
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MillCreek

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 07:00:03 PM »
It costs more to keep a man locked up for a year than it would to send a deserving young person to virtually any college in the nation for the same length of time.

The obvious solution, which was the norm within my lifetime, is to make prisons self-supporting.

Interestingly enough, Washington state prisons used to have a reputation for this, going from raising much of their own food, meat and dairy products on prison farms (one of which is not that far from me), to prison industries that produced goods for both internal and government use as well as sold on the private market.  Over the years, almost all of these efforts have been shut down, due to complaints from the business market that it represented unfair competition and decreased jobs in the private sector.  So now the government has to buy all those services and products on the open market.

I have read a couple of magazine articles in the LA Times and a couple of other California papers about the tremendous political power wielded by the California correctional officers unions.  The unions have the power to swing state elections, so their wages and benefits are among the best in the country and are one of the reasons why the California state budget has been brought to its knees by criminal justice costs.  Legislators vote against prisons, prison staffing, or staffing wages and benefits at their peril.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MicroBalrog

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 07:35:19 PM »
It costs more to keep a man locked up for a year than it would to send a deserving young person to virtually any college in the nation for the same length of time.

The obvious solution, which was the norm within my lifetime, is to make prisons self-supporting.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/spe01.txt

Quote
The average operating cost to incarcerate one inmate in the
Federal Bureau of Prisons system during FY 2001 was $22,632.
 



Your calculation would only be correct assuming public colleges, and assuming the government pays nothing to budget them. This is of course not correct.

http://allcollege.org/college-costs.htm
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 10:17:25 PM »
That was almost a decade ago.  I bet it's a lot pricier these days.

HankB

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 10:06:00 AM »
It costs more to keep a man locked up for a year than it would to send a deserving young person to virtually any college in the nation for the same length of time.

The obvious solution, which was the norm within my lifetime, is to make prisons self-supporting.
How about outsourcing?

I'll bet Turkey could warehouse our long-term bad guys for $10 a day. Putin could probably undercut that with his Soviet era gulags, and considering how strapped for cash they are, Zimbabwe might go as cheap as $1 a day. (Which would probably be a couple of bazillion in local currency.)

And there's just something right about putting the worst of the worst - serial killers, rapists, child molesters, etc., in some place like Lusaka jail.
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drewtam

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 06:44:56 PM »
I think you are only half kidding Hank. But I find nothing right about subjecting citizens to potential neglect and torture at the hands of foreign gov'ts.
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sanglant

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 11:23:23 PM »
ok then, how about if we just send the "illegal murderers"? [tinfoil] >:D

MechAg94

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 04:38:53 AM »
Interestingly enough, Washington state prisons used to have a reputation for this, going from raising much of their own food, meat and dairy products on prison farms (one of which is not that far from me), to prison industries that produced goods for both internal and government use as well as sold on the private market.  Over the years, almost all of these efforts have been shut down, due to complaints from the business market that it represented unfair competition and decreased jobs in the private sector.  So now the government has to buy all those services and products on the open market.

I have read a couple of magazine articles in the LA Times and a couple of other California papers about the tremendous political power wielded by the California correctional officers unions.  The unions have the power to swing state elections, so their wages and benefits are among the best in the country and are one of the reasons why the California state budget has been brought to its knees by criminal justice costs.  Legislators vote against prisons, prison staffing, or staffing wages and benefits at their peril.
I guess that doesn't extend to Texas.  I don't think Texas prison officers make much money, but I don't know.
That the self sufficiency was removed due to politics doesn't surprise me a bit.  

Either way, this new novel approach to parole doesn't sound new and seems like it should not be unique.
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HankB

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 10:25:42 AM »
I think you are only half kidding Hank. But I find nothing right about subjecting citizens to potential neglect and torture at the hands of foreign gov'ts.
Murderers and child rapists I'd simply put down, but if THAT's not allowed, yes, I WOULD outsource their captivity.

But in the spirit of compromise, how about we just use foreign jails to incarcerate the illegal aliens we catch? I've read that in some parts of the country, as many as HALF of the convicts are illegal aliens; plenty of opportunity for savings there, and since they're not US citizens - adios.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
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Tallpine

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Re: A new approach to parole
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 07:37:24 PM »
Quote
make prisons self-supporting

Just sell felons into slavery, to the highest bidder  >:D
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