Goodbye McCain/Feingold

[MicroBalrog]

Back in 2000, if we'd all nitpicked GWB foibles to death and not voted for him, we'd probably still have a McCain/Feingold bill, except that it probably would have been much worse, and we wouldn't have a court willing to strike it down.  We tried the don't-vote-for-any-imperfect-Republican strategy back in 2008, and we nearly saw group of Marxists remake the country in their image.

Nearly?

They've not even come close. They've been in power for a year, and they've failed completely and grotesquely in passing any major items of their agenda. Possessing a filibuster-proof majority, and having - in their own admission - planned to pass healthcare reform by the end of August, they've fallen completely flat on their face. Barack Obama has been president for over a year, and yet he has not passed health care reform.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Not even close?  Say what?

 

[MicroBalrog]

Not even close?  Say what?

 

They've been delayed for over a year passing just one item of their agenda. They're not going to have time to ALSO accomplish immigration reform and all the other things by the time the Republicans take over in 2010. They've managed to make individual liberties and free-market ideas popular and liberalism unpopular again. They've completely gone and destroyed their political capital - and they have less than a year to somehow, magically recover. So far, their entire enterprise has been a total and complete disaster - for them.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Do you have any comprehension of just how close they came?  Or how much effort our guys had to put in to stop them?

If not for one more Republican in the Senate, elected in an election that shouldn't have happened when it did...  If you believe in the divine, now's the time to start thanking Him for the intervention.

And if that's "not even close", I'm terrified of how close you'd be comfortable with.

[alex_trebek]

I have a hard time supporting someone just because of their party membership.  My personal view has always been that I would prefer to remain uninvolved than support people who will make things worse. Republicans had a shot, admitedly short and not as big of a shot the dems now have.  IMO they blew it.

Now I am only in my mid twenties, but I have noticed that things only change for the worse. I believe that this is the result of consistently voting for the lesser of two evils. Or finding the R that is most electable. At some point, someone has to objectively question the strategy.

In my view, admitting leftist/progressives into the party is destroying it to save it.  One day we will wake up, and R's like McCain, Brown, et al. will no longer be RINO's. They will be the rank-and-file. I don't see this as looking for the perfect republican, just one that is conservative and has a record to back up their stances.

Now as far doing good, voting only for R's as the solution to all of our problems, seems a little wrong. That assumes R's are right about everything, or that the dems are not right enough on some issues to balance the Marxists in the party. I think this not an objective view.

Ten years ago if I had to pick a party I would have chosen the R's. I agreed with Bush's first platform.  He didn't really follow through on any of it. Today, I honestly don't know. I guess libertarian, if I had to choose.

When the R's let in the likes of McCain, Brown, Bush, they change their platform. I don't listen to words I look at actions. Based on the choices the R's made during their tenure, I see a platform I don't agree with.

As you define it, I don't do anything to support the "cause." I think that comes from watching broken promise after broken promise. It also comes from watching politicians stop listening to their constiuents. Both sides are guilty of this.

I think your proximity to the Republican party is causing you to be a little sensitive. Nothing wrong with that, but I personally see both sides as too corrupt to trust.  Since we are a two party system, there aren't a lot of options.

[MicroBalrog]

Consider the plan of the Left:

To make America Europe.

France with guns. Sweden with NASCAR.

The Obama agenda was a composite list of things necessary to accomplish that. It wasn't "just" healthcare.

The Leftists believed that since a majority of people in Congress were marked with a D, they would uniformly agree with their agenda. This hasn't happened.

The Leftists believed that since they got elected, this signals the majority of people in America agree with their agenda. It turned out not to be true. They attempted to force a leftist/radical leftist agenda on a country that is at the worst centre-right. Their agenda was rooted, from the start, from a deep self-delusion and misunderstanding of the nature of their opponent. Because of that, they were bound to screw up - if not in that form, then in another.

The reasons for their loss are not this specific election result, or that specific vote. It's because they rooted their entire plan in a giant, terrible misunderstanding.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Alex, I think you would benefit from getting involved.  You'd get a chance to see that things aren't monolithic in the Republican Party.  There's far more to it/us than McCain or Bush.  If all you do is look selectively at certain details, cherry picking unfavorable facts and projecting them onto the whole, then you're bound to have a distorted view.  Take a better look, get the whole picture.

It's up to us what kind of people define the rank and file within the Rep Party.  If you don't like the type of politicians who define it currently, then join us in helping to change things around some.  Don't just throw barbs from the sidelines.  That doesn't help anyone.

If nothing else, getting involved brings you face to face with your own limitations and imperfections.  Does wonders for your perspective and objectivity when you realize that you're just as imperfect as the people you're trying to criticize.  Gives you better understanding of what really goes on and why, and enough experience to understand what matters and what doesn't.  Working in a campaign gives you a front-row seat for what politics really is, and it gives you some experience from which to accurately judge political failures and successes.

[Monkeyleg]

What HTG said.

As you define it, I don't do anything to support the "cause." I think that comes from watching broken promise after broken promise. It also comes from watching politicians stop listening to their constiuents. Both sides are guilty of this.

Work a campaign, then complain. Get to see how the process works up close, and how a good candidate gets picked apart if he's not careful.

I wonder how many people demand perfection from a candidate so as to excuse themselves from having to do anything?

[longeyes]

Thinking the Left wants to turn the USA into Europe is way too kind.  Europe is old news, a museum that is about to have new Islamic curators. 

[Silver Bullet]

I agree with this:

Barack Obama has been president for over a year

372 days down, 1089 days to go !   

Sweden with NASCAR

 

Europe is old news, a museum that is about to have new Islamic curators

That's even more graphic than winning the Stockholm 500.   

The Leftists believed that since they got elected, this signals the majority of people in America agree with their agenda. It turned out not to be true. They attempted to force a leftist/radical leftist agenda on a country that is at the worst centre-right. Their agenda was rooted, from the start, from a deep self-delusion and misunderstanding of the nature of their opponent. Because of that, they were bound to screw up - if not in that form, then in another.

The reasons for their loss are not this specific election result, or that specific vote. It's because they rooted their entire plan in a giant, terrible misunderstanding.

I hope this is true, because I doubt if they get it even now.

[makattak]

Thinking the Left wants to turn the USA into Europe is way too kind.  Europe is old news, a museum that is about to have new Islamic curators. 

Which is sad because those curators don't really care about history that isn't Islamic.

I have to wonder what of those once great cathedrals will be left in 100 years...

[MicroBalrog]

Which is sad because those curators don't really care about history that isn't Islamic.

I have to wonder what of those once great cathedrals will be left in 100 years...

Most of Europe's Muslims aren't roaring Taliban types. Which reminds me - I have a thread to start.

[alex_trebek]

What HTG said.

Work a campaign, then complain. Get to see how the process works up close, and how a good candidate gets picked apart if he's not careful.

I wonder how many people demand perfection from a candidate so as to excuse themselves from having to do anything?

I don't feel that the right to criticize the government has to be earned by volunteering in campaigns. I also think that asking for integrity, honesty, and a record to back these up is not the same asking for perfection. If the bar is so low that asking for these qualities is too much, then we have far bigger problems than Obama, marxism, etc.

I fear you implied far too much from what I have been saying.  All I am really saying is I don't trust republicans to not make things worse. I don't trust dems as well. I can't in good conscious contribute to making things worse. In all honesty part of me was relieved when McCain lost, this way I don't have to live with knowing I played a part in the further degredation of this country.

Show me somone, from any party, who could actually make things better or keep them the same, and has a record to stand on, and I will be there to support them.

I will gladly volunteer when someone who inspires me steps forward. I know my standards are high, but I think they should be high. These people want to run the country, a high standard is needed. Of course when I think of this hypothetical person, I think of Atlas Shrugged. Such a person probably wouldn't want to run, and I wouldn't blame them.

[makattak]

I don't feel that the right to criticize the government has to be earned by volunteering in campaigns. I also think that asking for integrity, honesty, and a record to back these up is not the same asking for perfection. If the bar is so low that asking for these qualities is too much, then we have far bigger problems than Obama, marxism, etc.

I fear you implied inferred far too much from what I have been saying.  All I am really saying is I don't trust republicans to not make things worse. I don't trust dems as well. I can't in good conscious contribute to making things worse. In all honesty part of me was relieved when McCain lost, this way I don't have to live with knowing I played a part in the further degredation of this country.

Show me somone, from any party, who could actually make things better or keep them the same, and has a record to stand on, and I will be there to support them.

I will gladly volunteer when someone who inspires me steps forward. I know my standards are high, but I think they should be high. These people want to run the country, a high standard is needed. Of course when I think of this hypothetical person, I think of Atlas Shrugged. Such a person probably wouldn't want to run, and I wouldn't blame them.

Infer is what a listener/reader does. Imply is what a speaker/author does.

[longeyes]

The cathedrals will have minarets.  "Progressive" Turkey has the prime example of that already in Istanbul.  If it were up to Taliban types the cathedrals would be indoor bazaars.

[roo_ster]

Most of Europe's Muslims aren't roaring Taliban types. Which reminds me - I have a thread to start.

But, they are more likely than muslims living in majority-muslim countries to actually take action and try to kill folk via terrorism.

[alex_trebek]

Infer is what a listener/reader does. Imply is what a speaker/author does.

I have a hard time properly structuring a sentence when typing from my phone. Mistakes are inevitable, it happens.

[roo_ster]

I have a hard time properly structuring a sentence when typing from my phone. Mistakes are inevitable, it happens.

I just always assume folks posting are using a Palm device and its egregious Palm Script while hanging upside-down from a limb and being menaced by hungry baboons.

Allows me to overlook the small stuff.

[makattak]

I just always assume folks posting are using a Palm device and its egregious Palm Script while hanging upside-down from a limb and being menaced by hungry baboons.

Allows me to overlook the small stuff.

I overlook most small stuff. As the thread in the Round Table illustrates, there are some things that just grate.

Improper usage of words is one of them. I can overlook misspellings.

[MechAg94]

Most of Europe's Muslims aren't roaring Taliban types. Which reminds me - I have a thread to start.

The question is will the lay down and let the few extremist types rule them?