Ipod Touch!

[mtnbkr]

Pretty slick.  I honestly think their future should be in handheld devices, not desktops/laptops with neutered versions of BSD.  This is what differentiates them from the competition.

Chris

[Harold Tuttle]

The apple manufactured 1GHz A4 processor chip is a really big deal

First, the A4 runs at a 1GHz frequency, which by mobile CPU standards, is quite high. Considering that Qualcomm's 1GHz Snapdragon powers Google's Nexus One, the Apple A4 could power the next wave of super-smartphones. In fact, at its current spec and frequency, the Apple A4 can play back HD video for 10 hours before requiring a full battery charge.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-ipad-iphone-ipod,9522.html

[Silver Bullet]

Very cool that the iPhone/iPod Touch apps will run on it without recompiling.  Doesn't the iPhone use an ARM processor ?

I'm glad I have procrastinated on buying the Touch.  I'll give the iPad a lot of thought and research, but I might wait for version 2.0, which I'm hoping will have multitasking for user apps.

[mtnbkr]

I'm glad I have procrastinated on buying the Touch.  I'll give the iPad a lot of thought and research, but I might wait for version 2.0, which I'm hoping will have multitasking for user apps.

I dunno.  For what I bought my iTouch for, the iPad wouldn't be a good replacement.  It has more capability, but lacks in the pocketability.

Chris

[erictank]

I dunno.  For what I bought my iTouch for, the iPad wouldn't be a good replacement.  It has more capability, but lacks in the pocketability.

Chris

For all it's wow factor (and there's plenty, IMO  ), that's it's biggest potential stumbling block.  It can do more than the iPhone/iPod Touch, but you need a backpack or briefcase to transport it.  I wonder if the market's going to be there for it, especially given that some of the features that had been buzzed about didn't make it into the production model, and it still has some of my personal issues with the iPhone/iTouch, such as the integral battery (when you run down your PDA/smartphone's battery to near-zero on a regular basis, having the ability to swap in a fresh battery if needed is a nice security blanket).

Then again, Apple's made it's own niche before.  I'll wait and see - but I don't see this as a replacement for either a smartphone or a laptop.  POSSIBLY to replace a netbook, if you don't mind the lack of a keyboard and are willing to spend 2x more.    I see some potential there, and will watch with interest, even if I don't plan to get one personally.

[Fly320s]

but I might wait for version 2.0, which I'm hoping will have multitasking for user apps.

Never buy the first version of anything. Let some other schmuck work-out the bugs. The price comes down with V2 also.

[mtnbkr]

Found some neat apps:
Cisco SIO to Go, for security geeks
WiFiTrak, for finding wifi hotspots

Chris

[S. Williamson]

I'm personally still waiting for foldable flat touchscreens.

8.5x11 too big?  Then fold it into a manageable 4.25 x 5.5. 

[MillCreek]

So Chris, I have never used a Touch.  Can a middle-aged person who uses reading glasses successfully use a Touch for browsing?  Or is the screen size just too small? Can you enlarge things for easier viewing?

[mtnbkr]

Can you?  Dunno.  I don't wear glasses at all.  Though Irwin didn't have any issues playing games and such.  Is the screen too small?  Depends on your eyesight I guess.  Can you enlarge things? Yes.  You can easily enlarge by placing two fingers on the screen and dragging them apart to "zoom".  You can also turn it to landscape mode to get a bit more screen real estate.

Chris

[Silver Bullet]

Here's a video demonstrating the iPhone's (and iPod Touch's) revolutionary technique of zooming in and out of a view using just the fingers in a "pinch" gesture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7owdMdvGbbY&feature=related

[BrokenPaw]

Here's a video demonstrating the iPhone's (and iPod Touch's) revolutionary technique of zooming in and out of a view using just the fingers in a "pinch" gesture:

The pinch-zoom on the iTouch was the coolest thing ever, until I actually found a thing I like better.  The xScope web browser for Android can do pinch-zoom, but it also has something called "pin-zoom".  You double-tap the screen, leaving your finger on it at the second tap.  Then, if you drag your finger right, it zooms in; left, and it zooms out.  I like it better for when I'm using the phone in "portrait" mode, because it doesn't take both hands; pinch-zoom is really only practical when you're holding a device in landscape orientation and have both thumbs available for the gesture.

YMMV, of course.

[Silver Bullet]

Pin-zoom sounds pretty cool, but I don't understand what you're saying about the pinch-zoom requiring two hands.  The person in the demo in the video I posted isn't using two hands.  He's using his thumb and index finger of his left hand.

[BrokenPaw]

Pin-zoom sounds pretty cool, but I don't understand what you're saying about the pinch-zoom requiring two hands.  The person in the demo in the video I posted isn't using two hands.  He's using his thumb and index finger of his left hand.

If the device is on the table, then sure.  But I've never been able to successfully pinch-zoom using only one hand, while holding the device; I guess I could hold it with three fingers and use my thumb and index finger on it, but that's an unnatural position for me.  When I'm holding my phone in portrait orientation, my thumb is the only digit on the holding hand that I can easily touch the screen with.

[doczinn]

I guess I could hold it with three fingers and use my thumb and index finger on it, but that's an unnatural position for me.

It can be done, but it's awkward. "Pin-zoom" sounds awesome.

[Harold Tuttle]

Thats the other interesting part of the equation
Who maintains the library of gestures?

Apple is early to market with multitouch® gesture control

I want to see some italian gesture control

[doczinn]

In a way it already exists.

For example, shaking the iPhone is an "undo" option.

[Silver Bullet]

If the device is on the table, then sure.  But I've never been able to successfully pinch-zoom using only one hand, while holding the device; I guess I could hold it with three fingers and use my thumb and index finger on it, but that's an unnatural position for me.  When I'm holding my phone in portrait orientation, my thumb is the only digit on the holding hand that I can easily touch the screen with.

Do you normally perform all of the functions with just your thumb in a typical "session" ?  If not, that is if you usually do some functions with a different finger or fingers, then it's no big deal to do one more: a two-handed pinch.

But, yeah, alternatives are good things.

[BrokenPaw]

Do you normally perform all of the functions with just your thumb in a typical "session" ?  If not, that is if you usually do some functions with a different finger or fingers, then it's no big deal to do one more: a two-handed pinch.

But, yeah, alternatives are good things.

If I'm sitting down, more often than not I'll hold the thing in landscape orientation and use both hands.  If I'm walking around (or if I'm sitting but attempting to be subtle and not give away that I'm ignoring whatever's going on around me to check the Intertubes) typically I'm holding the phone in one hand, so I use my thumb exclusively. 

When more than one finger is available, I use pinch-zoom; it's easier and more intuitive than pin-zoom.  But the pin-zoom is invaluable when I only have the one thumb available.

[Silver Bullet]

Thanks for your reply.

I think we beat that topic into the ground, squeezed out every nuance and subtlety.   

[taurusowner]

BrokenPaw, you're right about Android.  Apple needs to watch its backside.  The Android open source OS is doing things unheard of on iGadgets.  There is talk of an Android laptop, Android mp3 players, even Android home appliances.  The beauty of the Android OS is that it is completely customizable to whatever device or needs you have.  And it's all interoperable and open source.  Apple has some great and innovative ideas.  They always have.  But Apple's weak point is that they think their ideas are the only good ideas.  And they shut themselves off from such a wider scope of possibility.  It happened with the PC and it's ability to separate hardware from the OS, and it's happening now with the iPhone and Android phones.  Apple has never been able to separate their hardware from their software.  And other companies that can do so always end up with the edge.  Even now, there are multiple phones from nearly every service provider that all can run the Android OS.  If you want an iPhone, you have to have ATT, and you have to have the iPhone handset if you want the iPhones cool software.  Not so with the Android.  I can choose any service provider I want, choose from multiple handset designs, and have the same great open source OS.  If I want a phone with a hard keyboard from Verizon with Android, I can get one.  If I want one with a soft iPhone like keyboard from T-Mobile, I can choose that.  Apple has never understood that people love customization.  For every Apple groupie who loves their designs 100%, there are 10 more that like some aspects of a design, but want other things different.  Android gives them that, the iPhone/iTouch does not.  Apple is once again refusing to admit that their way is not the only way, and if they don't open up soon, they're gonna repeat their defeat in the PC market.

[Silver Bullet]

they're gonna repeat their defeat in the PC market

What defeat ?  Aren't they the third or fourth biggest PC manufacturer ?

I think they're happy being the BMW of the computer industry.  They don't sell the most, but they sell the best.  They don't have the most market share, but they have the most mind share.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I want Google to build my house.

[taurusowner]

I think they're more like the Playskool of the PC market.  The have next to nothing in terms of market share, no serious business runs Mac computers for anything the requires heavy computing.  Macs are college kid computers, and that's about it, except for a few trendy adults here and there.  Microsoft learned to license their OS apart from hardware, thus allowing multiple hardware companies to run their OS.  This gives PCs a degree of customization that Macs just can't have.

This is happening again with phones.  Apple refuses to separate their phone OS from the handset.  Android is already running on over 10 different handsets from every major manufacturer and service provider.  Not only does this give consumers a choice between handset style and service provider they can't get with the iPhone, Android's open source linux-based nature means the choice of apps is open to anyone who knows how to program.  And Google is very open with their developer kit for just this reason.

They don't sell the best.  They came up with a good idea, and locked it down, like they always do.  The "mind share" as you call it isn't with Apple.  It isn't even with Google.  It's with developers who Google has allowed to toy with their OS freely.  Not just casual app developers who write programs, but even handset and service providers like HTC, Motorola, Verizon, etc.  They all have personal versions of Android that are tailored to their multiple phones.  It gives the consumer dozens of options.  With the iPhone, you have Apple's one way, or not at all. Apple came up with a good iPhone OS, and and good handset.  But they absolutely refuse to open things up to customization from the user and developer end.  And it is going to cost them.  Again.

Here's a few scenarios.

You want an iPhone like phone, but you insist on having a physical keyboard.  That rules out Apple.  But there's more than a few Android phones that have them.

You want an iPhone like phone, but you don't want ATT service.  Maybe you have T-Mobile or Verizon.  That rules out Apple.  Good things both T-Mobile and Verizon each offer multiple Android phones.

Let's say you just want to buy an unlocked phone you can use with whatever service you want.  Good luck getting an iPhone like that from Apple.  Of course Google will be happy to sell you their own Nexus One that can be used on any carrier.

Oh yeah, Android 2.0+ supports flash in the browser.

[mtnbkr]

...no serious business runs Mac computers for anything the requires heavy computing.  Macs are college kid computers, and that's about it, except for a few trendy adults here and there.

I know of a few IT security groups (one is part of a Very Large Company) that run Macs because they aren't susceptible to the same virii that plague the PC platform while having more support for the standard apps most companies use. 

You want an iPhone like phone, but you don't want ATT service.  Maybe you have T-Mobile or Verizon.  That rules out Apple. 

Maybe not for long.  I heard a rumor that Vz is getting the iPhone in the near future.

Oh yeah, Android 2.0+ supports flash in the browser.

Personally, I hate flash even on a PC.  I wouldn't want to deal with a flash site in a handheld. 

Chris