Author Topic: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?  (Read 2764 times)

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« on: January 26, 2010, 12:57:54 PM »

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.



I don't think I would protest if most every inch of prisons/jails were under video surveillance.  After all, all those surveilled are either wards of hte state or employees of the state.


A little more in the same vein here:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2010/01/14/rape-victims-vs-prison-rape-victims/
http://www.justdetention.org/
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 02:03:25 PM »
Is this trying to ask if I would knowingly stop a Texas Longhorn Fan from getting raped?  




 =D

« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:06:38 PM by MechAg94 »
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 02:43:17 PM »
Hell, or an Aggy for that matter.   =D
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 04:04:21 PM »
That's Aggie to you!   :laugh:

You know the rule.  I before E except after C instead of Y. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

41magsnub

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,579
  • Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 04:10:02 PM »
I also do not have problems with full on camera coverage and preventing this crap.  It serves no purpose and probably has a very negative effect on the folks in prison that do have a chance of turning things around.  Not to mention the spread of aids, Hep C, and other crap to folks further taxing the public health system.

jackdanson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 702
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 05:46:13 PM »
Orange jumpsuits aren't hawt.

But seriously prison rape is a fairly big problem, although often blown out of proportion. (not everyone in prison has been raped)
They need to have big time punishment for those who do it.

DustinD

  • I have a title
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 919
  • I have a personal text message
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 06:24:35 PM »
Quote
Is this trying to ask if I would knowingly stop a Texas Longhorn Fan from getting raped?
I don't get it.
"I don't always shoot defenceless women in the face, but when I do, I prefer H-S Precision.

Stay bloodthirsty, my friends."

                       - Lon Horiuchi

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 07:28:40 PM »
Is this trying to ask if I would knowingly stop a Texas Longhorn Fan from getting raped?  




 =D



At UT, it's only rape when Daddy finds the pregnancy kit......
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

  • Webley Juggler
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,415
  • All I got is a fistful of shekels
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 08:43:02 PM »
I don't get it.
UT school colors are Orange. Aggies and UTers are mortal enemies.

From what I've read on a tangent subject, prisons where rape and similar take place tend to be very corrupt in other areas as well. That was one of Rudy G's many objectives for NYC - IIRC, he fired a significant number of peeps to get the job done. It worked very well. Before, smuggling all manner of stuff into the prison and gang violence was common.

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 09:14:41 PM »
Quote
That's Aggie to you!

Well, there you go.

Just reinforces the old saying about "You can always tell an Aggie, but you can't tell 'em much..."   ;)
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Silver Bullet

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,859
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 11:19:38 PM »
How many Aggies does it take to eat an armadillo ?

Three.  One to actually eat it, and two to watch for traffic.

<slap> "Stay on topic" -- Dionysusigma

Okay, okay ... jfruser, I agree that rape in prison is a bad thing, that the folks incarcerated do not "have it coming".  Your posters ask if we would help her.  Do you have a plan ?

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2010, 05:53:52 AM »
Video survelience in prisons, or anywhere else for that matter, does little to deter anything.  However, if the camera is of sufficient quality it may aid in identification of both perpetrator and victim.

As suggested in the linked article, prison rape is a symptom of "corruption" within the system.  While it is often hard to work up sympathy for folks who are incarcerated because they chose to disregard - usually rather blatantly - the rules/laws that the rest of us spend so much energy in adhereing to, there is a financial side to the issue that most folks are not aware of.  While prison medical care is generally limited to what is absolutely constitutionally required - think what the non-paying public gets at either the ER or at teaching hospital clinics - it costs a heck of a lot more inside prison than outside.  In addition, it is rather common for inmates to sue for violation of their civil right to be protected - and if rape can be proven it is a prima fascia case usually worth several hundereds of thousands of dollars.  Add the extra costs of AIDS/Hepatitis care and the expenses become astronomical.  And the icing on the cake is that the families of inmates are now getting some traction in the courts as "co-victims" who suffer because of adjusted visitation rules imposed to protect them from catching AIDS/Hep as well as the usual "my baby died because of your negligence" lawsuits.

In systems where prison rape occurs more frequently there are additional costs in personnel and maintenance.  If inmates are "allowed" to assault one another the guards use more sick leave/vacation - presumably as a symptom of fear that they too may be assaulted.  There is a suggesion, based on maintenance costs, that things are not fixed when first malfunctioning, but allowed to deteriorate to the point of complete failure requiring replacement rather than repair.

So, the bottom line is, as usual, how much you want to pay?  But getting the general public to understand that is next to impossible.  Here in Virginia a group that wants more $$ for schools is running an ad complaining that the state throws away money on "criminal welfare services" (pretrial services) while neglecting teh chilldruns futures.  Try to explain more spending for prison medical care to the taxpayers - I'' hold your coat while they lynch you after tarring & feathering you. =)

stay safe.

skidmark
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2010, 07:14:22 AM »
SB:

Not my posters.  I thought them interesting enough to post, though.

vaskidmark has got the gist of it and more can be found at the links.

In addition to va's remarks, I must admit that the idea of prison rape is offensive to my sense of justice.  These criminals were sentenced for a particular time via due process, not some warlord who tosses the criminal to his cronies or dogs for their amusement.

Also, the sentence is loss of liberty for a time, not rape and not "contract a fatal disease and die horribly."  One also thinks about all those in prison who violated the crimes which caused little/no harm to others, but which get hammered by the criminal justice system in the flurry of "felony-for-anything" legislating we have seen the last couple of decades.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,846
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2010, 07:38:26 AM »
SB:

Not my posters.  I thought them interesting enough to post, though.

vaskidmark has got the gist of it and more can be found at the links.

In addition to va's remarks, I must admit that the idea of prison rape is offensive to my sense of justice.  These criminals were sentenced for a particular time via due process, not some warlord who tosses the criminal to his cronies or dogs for their amusement.

Also, the sentence is loss of liberty for a time, not rape and not "contract a fatal disease and die horribly."  One also thinks about all those in prison who violated the crimes which caused little/no harm to others, but which get hammered by the criminal justice system in the flurry of "felony-for-anything" legislating we have seen the last couple of decades.

The irony of it is that the most likely people to be victimized are precisely those who are the least dangerous, for obvious reasons.

I think a careful study of the way prisons are designed is in order for the long term.  There are certain conditions and environments that have been known to produce this behaviour throughout history, so perhaps identifying the key ingredients and eliminating them in prisons is possible.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2010, 09:16:17 AM »
I don't get it.
I guess you have to follow college football a little bit.  The University of Texas Longhorns and Texas A&M University Aggies are in-state rivals each with over 40,000 undergraduate students.  The Longhorns have burnt orange and white as their team colors.  The Aggies are Maroon and White.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2010, 09:16:48 AM »
Well, there you go.

Just reinforces the old saying about "You can always tell an Aggie, but you can't tell 'em much..."   ;)
Yeah, we tend to talk too much so you can't get a word in anyway.  :D
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 09:18:00 AM »
How many Aggies does it take to eat an armadillo ?

Three.  One to actually eat it, and two to watch for traffic.

<slap> "Stay on topic" -- Dionysusigma

Okay, okay ... jfruser, I agree that rape in prison is a bad thing, that the folks incarcerated do not "have it coming".  Your posters ask if we would help her.  Do you have a plan ?
No armadillos.  They stink even when alive.  We go for the better classes of road kill. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,914
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 09:21:54 AM »
On the original topic:  I don't care for rape in prison.  While there might be some I might think have earned that type of treatment, most have not.  I would hate to see some guy nabbed for some petty BATFE violation getting that treatment.  Besides, I don't agree with torturing prisoners.  If we really think they deserve something that bad, just give them the death penalty.  We are after justice here, not torture. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 11:06:19 AM »
The irony of it is that the most likely people to be victimized are precisely those who are the least dangerous, for obvious reasons.

I think a careful study of the way prisons are designed is in order for the long term.  There are certain conditions and environments that have been known to produce this behaviour throughout history, so perhaps identifying the key ingredients and eliminating them in prisons is possible.

Agreed on both.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 12:21:42 PM »


Interestingly, I think we are a chavaunistic society, to a fault.  Female prisoners being abused by male gaurds or even other female prisoners is seen as abhorrent; yet many Americans turn a blind eye to such treatment of male prisoners, even cheering it on as some sort of comeuppance. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2010, 06:31:15 PM »
In an unusual turn of events SS, jfruser, and I are in total agreement. I think 24/7 monitoring of every inch of the jail/prison (stored off site to reduce opportunity for evidence tampering) would be a good start even if not a sinecure. I'm thinking of the deputy here in WA who got caught beating a teen girl on tape. If not for that evidence, she'd have gotten a charge for resisting arrest or assaulting an officer, most likely.

I also agree society has different views about crimes against men vs against women. While recognizing that men and women are fundamentally different is a good thing, it has no place in the criminal justice system.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: If This Woman Were Being Raped, Would You Help Her?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2010, 06:59:06 PM »
A thread where we're all in agreement. Mind-warping.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner