Author Topic: Centralia, PA news...  (Read 25060 times)

280plus

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Centralia, PA news...
« on: February 05, 2010, 08:12:48 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100205/ap_on_re_us/us_centralia_s_final_days

By MICHAEL RUBINKAM, Associated Press Writer Michael Rubinkam, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 2 mins ago
CENTRALIA, Pa. – Standing before the wreckage of his bulldozed home, John Lokitis Jr. felt sick to his stomach, certain that a terrible mistake had been made.

He'd fought for years to stay in the house. It was one of the few left standing in the moonscape of Centralia, a once-proud coal town whose population fled an underground mine fire that began in 1962 and continues to burn.

But the state had ordered Lokitis to vacate, leaving the fourth-generation Centralian little choice but to say goodbye — to the house, and to what's left of the town he loved.

"I never had any desire to move," said Lokitis, 39. "It was my home."

After years of delay, state officials are now trying to complete the demolition of Centralia, a borough in the mountains of northeastern Pennsylvania that all but ceased to exist in the 1980s after the mine fire spread beneath homes and businesses, threatening residents with poisonous gases and dangerous sinkholes.

More than 1,000 people moved out, and 500 structures were razed under a $42 million federal relocation program.

But dozens of holdouts, Lokitis included, refused to go — even after their houses were seized through eminent domain in the early 1990s. They said the fire posed little danger to their part of town, accused government officials and mining companies of a plot to grab the mineral rights and vowed to stay put. State and local officials had little stomach to oust the diehards, who squatted tax- and rent-free in houses they no longer owned.

Steve Fishman, attorney for the state Department of Community and Economic Development, said "benign neglect" on the part of state and local officials allowed the residents to stay for so long.

No more.

Fishman told The Associated Press that the state is moving as quickly as possible to take possession of the remaining homes and get them knocked down.

"Everyone agreed that we needed to move this along," he said.

In 2006, there were 16 properties left standing. A year ago, the town was down to 11. Now there are five houses occupied with fewer than a dozen holdouts.

Centralia appears to be entering its final days.

The remaining holdouts, weary after decades of media scrutiny, rarely give interviews. But the town's 86-year-old mayor, Carl Womer, said he doubts he'll have to go. Indeed, Lokitis and others believe that elderly residents will be allowed to live out their final years in Centralia — even after a Columbia County judge decides next month how much they should be paid for their homes.

"Nothing's happened. We're still here," said Womer, whose wife, Helen, who died in 2001, was an implacable foe of relocation. "No one's told us to move."

Like Womer, resident John Lokitis Sr., 68, father of Lokitis Jr., was polite but short. "Why worry about it? When it comes, it comes. I don't give a rat's ass," he said, shutting the door.

Those who remain in Centralia like to keep up appearances. In mid-January, Christmas decorations still adorned the street lamps, a large manger scene occupied a corner of the main intersection and a 2010 calendar hung in the empty borough building. But the holdouts are fighting a losing battle. The building's wooden facade is in dire need of a paint job; in the Odd Fellows Cemetery, vandals recently knocked over dozens of tombstones. Nature has reclaimed parts of the town.

In reality, Centralia is already a memory — an intact street grid with hardly anything on it. All the familiar places that define a town — churches, businesses, schools, homes — are long gone.

A hand-lettered sign tacked to a tree near Womer's home directs tourists to a rocky outcropping off the main street where opaque clouds of steam rise from the ground.

"It was a real community, and people loved the place," said author and journalist Dave DeKok, who has been writing about Centralia for 30 years and recently published "Fire Underground," an updated version of his 1986 book on the town. "People lived their entire lives in that town and would have been quite happy to get rid of the mine fire and keep on living there."

With swifter action, DeKok said, that might have been Centralia's destiny.

The fire began at the town dump and ignited an exposed coal vein. It could have been extinguished for thousands of dollars then, but a series of bureaucratic half-measures and a lack of funding allowed the fire to grow into a voracious monster — feeding on millions of tons of slow-burning anthracite coal in the abandoned network of mines beneath the town.

At first, most Centralians ignored the fire. Some denied its existence, choosing to disregard the threat.

That changed in the 1970s, when carbon monoxide began entering homes and sickening people. The beginning of the end came in 1981, when a cave-in sucked a 12-year-old boy into a hot, gaseous void, nearly killing him. The town divided into two warring camps, one in favor of relocation and one opposed.

Finally, in 1983, the federal government appropriated $42 million to acquire and demolish every building in Centralia. Nearly everyone participated in the voluntary buyouts; by 1990, Census figures showed only 63 people remaining.

Two years later, Gov. Robert Casey decided to shut the town, saying the fire had become too dangerous. The holdouts fought condemnation, blocking appraisers from entering their homes. The legal process eventually ground to a halt.

Until recently, Lokitis Jr., who works a civilian job with the state police in Harrisburg, had been one of Centralia's most vocal defenders — star of a 2007 documentary on Centralia. He expressed hope that it could stage a comeback, claiming the fire had gone out or moved away.

State officials say the fire continues to burn uncontrolled and could for hundreds of years, until it runs out of fuel. One of their biggest concerns is the danger to tourists who often cluster around steam vents on unstable ground.

While Lokitis felt he was in no danger, he had little recourse than to move from his late grandfather's two-story row home on West Park Street when an order to vacate arrived, one of two such notices sent last year.

Now living a few miles away, he tacked a sign on the front porch of the old homestead. "REQUIESCAT IN PACE" — rest in peace, it said. "SORRY POP."

He couldn't bear to watch the home get knocked down a few weeks before Christmas. But he couldn't stay away, either, going back after the wrecking crew had finished its work.

"It was part of my life for all 39 years, that house," he said. "It was difficult to leave it and difficult to see it demolished."

Difficult, too, to give up his dream of Centralia's rebirth.

"I'd always hoped the town would come back and be rebuilt," Lokitis said, "but I guess that's never going to happen."
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never_retreat

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 03:42:29 PM »
Funny I read about this a few years ago and did some research, Its on my list of  places to just check out.
Maybe I should move it up on the list before it is all gone. Its only and hour or so away. I here its neat to check out after a snow because it shows where the fire is because the snow don't stick.
Its funny because it could have been put out, but the government procrastinated to much (shock).
The is still quite to possibility of this moving under another large town. Ashland I believe.

It just amazes me that we can't build a pipeline and just start dumping water underground. Either through existing shafts or drilling a few holes. After all its not that far underground. Plus there are streams in the area.


http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2196
http://www.xydexx.com/modernruins/centralia.htm
http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/centralia.htm
http://www.centraliapa.com/
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Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

Gewehr98

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 06:23:11 PM »
My understanding is that the government tried to put the underground fire out, several times, to no avail.

The final cost estimate to basically trench down to the fire's level and surround it was much more expensive than just buying people's homes and relocating them, and just waiting the 225 years for it to burn itself out.
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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2010, 07:33:20 PM »
My understanding is that the government tried to put the underground fire out, several times, to no avail.

The final cost estimate to basically trench down to the fire's level and surround it was much more expensive than just buying people's homes and relocating them, and just waiting the 225 years for it to burn itself out.

My understanding is the government's efforts were basically incompetent.  This shouldn't be overly surprising.  Similar fires have been put out.  Clay or ash slurry pumped into the right spots. 

I have words that I could say about DCED mentioned in the article.  I cannot speak them in a public forum.


Basically, if you want to see what Centralia looked like, rent Silent Hill.  For various reasons, they have more recently leveled the entire area.  There's roughly two dozen structures in the area.

And 280?  Remember the hardware I brought with me to that place that one time?   You don't even what to imagine the equipment I'd bring with me to Centralia.    [tinfoil]
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2010, 07:46:25 PM »
Basically, if you want to see what Centralia looked like, rent Silent Hill.  For various reasons, they have more recently leveled the entire area.  There's roughly two dozen structures in the area.


Silent Hill was the first thing I thought of when I read the story. I was sort of wondering if that was where they got the idea for the game and subsequent movie.
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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2010, 08:03:01 PM »
Silent Hill was the first thing I thought of when I read the story. I was sort of wondering if that was where they got the idea for the game and subsequent movie.

Game, not sure.  Movie, yes.  The "normal" town in the movie is directly modeled off Centralia prior to its demolition.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2010, 10:04:38 PM »
Quote
And 280?  Remember the hardware I brought with me to that place that one time?   You don't even what to imagine the equipment I'd bring with me to Centralia.    
Hmmm,,, maybe we should make Centralia our next point of rendezvous?   ;)

BTW, I recall them working a fire in Scranton when I was a kid. They were pumping slurry down into the mines. No sight of any of that stuff these days. No slag piles either. I wonder what they did with all the slag. Pumped it back down the mines maybe?
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280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2010, 10:18:02 PM »
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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2010, 10:38:30 PM »
Hmmm,,, maybe we should make Centralia our next point of rendezvous?   ;)

BTW, I recall them working a fire in Scranton when I was a kid. They were pumping slurry down into the mines. No sight of any of that stuff these days. No slag piles either. I wonder what they did with all the slag. Pumped it back down the mines maybe?

We could.  Just expect me to be carrying an arsenal.  Along with a radio rigged up to an unused frequency.  And the phone number of a buddy at the 111th Fighter Wing, which is less than 80 miles away. 

The only movie to creep me out in years was Silent Hill.  Seriously.  Normally, horror movies are like comedy movies to me.  I think they're hysterical.  That movie and game?  No go. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2010, 10:08:07 AM »
So we could call in CAS? Nice option.  ;)

 =D
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mtnbkr

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2010, 12:24:32 PM »
The only movie to creep me out in years was Silent Hill.  Seriously.  Normally, horror movies are like comedy movies to me.  I think they're hysterical.  That movie and game?  No go. 

Me too.  It ranks right up there with The Ring for the short list of movies that creep.me.right.out.

And I would love to make a pilgrimage to Centralia myself one day.  I've been fascinated with it since I first learned about it years ago.

Chris

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
I'd like to recon Centralia someday, too.  That hill with all the dead trees, and the sulfur deposits near the vent holes is other-worldly.  There's a YouTube video taken on a 15-degree day showing the steam coming out of the cracks in the former Highway 61.  :O
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freakazoid

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2010, 01:12:02 PM »
Quote
Remember the hardware I brought with me to that place that one time?

lolz, Hackers, the movie, reference.  :lol:


edit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjtmaCI9_wM
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 01:56:27 PM by freakazoid »
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2010, 02:42:06 PM »
So we could call in CAS? Nice option.  ;)

 =D

Unfortunately, not very much of it.  Only 5 warthogs.  We had 10 from the last cuts.  Now we're down to 5 and they want to take them as well.  I'm not happy with a lack of CAS and air superiority airframes under state control.


If anyone wants to make a trip out to Centralia, lemme know.  See what we can organize.  I am relatively close so I can recon out the area. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

freakazoid

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2010, 03:06:39 PM »
Planning on doing some zombie blasting or something?  :lol:
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

TMM

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2010, 03:40:58 PM »
this Centralia thing is really intriguing to me too. i heard about a ever-burning mine fire a while ago, but couldn't find what/where it specifically is.

i've used bituminous coal for blacksmithing, and it's amazing how much energy that stuff has... i wonder what kind of inferno is raging under the ground. reminds me of a man-made yellowstone.

i have a friend who's studying history and is interested in this, and she happens to live in PA. one day maybe she and i will check it out... and perhaps with some APS'ers too?

tmm

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2010, 04:34:42 PM »
The only movie to creep me out in years was Silent Hill.  Seriously.  Normally, horror movies are like comedy movies to me.  I think they're hysterical.  That movie and game?  No go.  

Me too.  It ranks right up there with The Ring for the short list of movies that creep.me.right.out.

Thanks, I'm not a fan of the horror/genre to begin with (Hitchcock movies are about as far as I go), so Silent Hill goes into the memory banks under "Flee Immediately, Like Lot in the Bible".

Oh, If RevDisk doesn't think five A-10's are enough, then "Y'all Have Fun, I'll be back here keeping the beer cool and girls warm...."

 =D =D =D  

« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 04:40:51 PM by scout26 »
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280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 07:23:11 PM »
Just tell me when... Bring lots of rope in case we falls into a fiery hole. Preferably asbestos rope. :O

 :lol:

There's a few other great places around the area. You all have to go to Steamtown too, maybe on the same trip. About an hour away from Centralia. We'd need to call ahead and go on a day when they're opening the workshop to tours for the best effect. Fascinating. Especially if you love steam operated machinery. I almost moved back to Scranton just to work there. Couldn't talk the SO into it. But if she ever kicks my ass out you'll know where to find me.  =D
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280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2010, 07:24:59 PM »
I'm not sure where our Warthogs are these days. I should check into it for ha has.
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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2010, 07:46:04 PM »
i have a friend who's studying history and is interested in this, and she happens to live in PA. one day maybe she and i will check it out... and perhaps with some APS'ers too?

tmm

Actually, sure.  It's given me some thought for a new project.  Light hiking wear designed to conceal heavy ordinance. 



Oh, If RevDisk doesn't think five A-10's are enough, then "Y'all Have Fun, I'll be back here keeping the beer cool and girls warm...."

 =D =D =D  

Oh it's not that bad.  Don't be silly, five A-10's is more than enough.  However, I'm of the school of thought that "ludicrously excessive overkill" is the default option unless circumstances require otherwise.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

TMM

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2010, 08:27:05 PM »
Quote
Actually, sure.  It's given me some thought for a new project.  Light hiking wear designed to conceal heavy ordinance. 

i take it something bothers you about centralia?  =D

tmm

Gewehr98

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2010, 10:49:09 PM »
Dayum.

I just researched Silent Hill.

I'd want more than A-10 Warthogs backing me up...

Just plain creepy, especially the killer nurses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLb_M3G6Iv8
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2010, 11:13:07 PM »
I can be there in 2 hours by car.

One would think shutting down a co2 belching coal fire would be a green thing
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280plus

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 06:33:59 AM »
One would think shutting down a co2 belching coal fire would be a green thing
Whoa, let's not be getting ahead of ourselves there mister.  :police:

 :laugh:
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RevDisk

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Re: Centralia, PA news...
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 08:02:14 AM »
I can be there in 2 hours by car.

One would think shutting down a co2 belching coal fire would be a green thing

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And it’s not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.