Author Topic: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten  (Read 4958 times)

Ben

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Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« on: February 10, 2010, 10:00:39 PM »
Maybe there's more to this story (due to the pepper spraying reference), but on the face of it, I wouldn't care what "company policy" was or if I'd get fired -- as a human being, I couldn't stand by and watch this happen. The Seattle police spokesman's quote is so ridiculous that I have to highlight it:

Quote
King County Sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said the guards were right to follow their training.

"If you're a bank teller and you do something other than give them the money, you're going to get fired," Urquhart said. "We don't expect civilians to take police action. In this case, it was a violent fight, and they were outnumbered by this pack of people 3-to-1."

I also don't get how they were "outnumbered 3-1" if there were three guards and four assailants.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100211/ap_on_re_us/us_bus_tunnel_beating

3 Seattle bus tunnel guards watch brutal beating
By GENE JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Gene Johnson, Associated Press Writer 19 mins ago

SEATTLE – A 15-year-old girl who was badly beaten and robbed in a Seattle bus tunnel as three unarmed security guards looked on told investigators that she thought the men would protect her.

The statements were revealed in court papers filed Wednesday against the teen girl accused of attacking her and the three young men accused of stealing her purse, phone and iPod. The four were all charged with first-degree robbery.

The victim told a King County sheriff's detective that the group followed her from a nearby department store into the bus tunnel at Westlake Station on Jan. 28, and she deliberately stood next to the three guards.

The guards didn't intervene, though. They have standing orders to "observe and report," so they called police but did nothing else as another 15-year-old girl punched and repeatedly kicked the victim in the head.

Government officials as well as executives at Olympic Security Services Inc., which employs the guards, are reviewing that protocol after the guards' response was caught on surveillance video.

"I went to the security and told them that these kids were trying to jump me," the girl said. "I know that I am about to get jumped and I am hanging around the guards to try and get protection. ... I thought the security guards would defend me."

The girl, who is black, also told the detective that the altercation began at a nearby department store, where some in the group made threatening comments that she had "nice things" and that she acts "white."

Two Seattle police officers noticed the escalating situation and kicked the group out of the Macy's, then brought the girl and her friend to another exit, the victim said. She reported that she asked the officers for an escort to the bus tunnel, just below the department store, but the officers refused.

The Seattle Police Department did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

One of the defendants, Dominique Whitaker, told detectives that earlier in the evening the victim had pepper-sprayed another person in the group.

The victim, who reported that she lost consciousness during the attack, was not hospitalized. She said she has a potentially fatal heart condition, and tried to protect her chest as she was being kicked.

King County Sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said the guards were right to follow their training.

"If you're a bank teller and you do something other than give them the money, you're going to get fired," Urquhart said. "We don't expect civilians to take police action. In this case, it was a violent fight, and they were outnumbered by this pack of people 3-to-1."

Metro Transit General Manager Kevin Desmond and other King County officials were less forgiving.

"We are very disappointed in what people see in that video," Desmond said. "It was absolutely unacceptable. I know the Olympic Security folks were also disappointed in the response, but again, the employees were following the letter of the agreement."

Metro Transit contracts with the King County Sheriff's Office for 68 police officers, and supplements that force with civilian guards provided by Olympic Security Services Inc. of Tukwila, Wash. All three of the guards involved are Olympic employees.

The guards' duties include helping customers and reporting suspicious objects, disruptive behavior and equipment problems.

Olympic Security President Mark Vinson did not immediately return calls seeking comment, but Desmond said the company is quickly working up a proposed contract revision, which could include additional training and new guidelines on how and when guards should intervene.

Other options include hiring armed guards.

Unarmed guards could put themselves and others at risk if they intervene in certain situations. But this incident was largely a fight between two teenage girls, and there does not appear to be any indication that the larger group would have become involved if the guards broke it up, Desmond said.

"If I was there on the platform I don't know that I would have stood there," he said. "It's their job to be down there. The people at Olympic Security had the same human response: 'Why didn't we step in to protect the girl on the ground?'"

The girl charged with being the primary attacker faces up to 2 1/2 years in juvenile detention if convicted. Whitaker, 18, and Latroy D. Hayman, 20, each face a sentence of 31 to 41 months in prison if convicted, and the third adult defendant, Tyrone J. Watson, 18, faces a sentence of 36 to 48 months in prison.

It was not immediately clear if any had obtained lawyers.
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tokugawa

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 10:56:46 AM »
It is Seattle- Land of Pussy Politicians. Remember a few years ago when the CoP told cops not to "intervene" during the Mardi Gras celebration? And that guy got his head kicked in and dies, tring to assist a person being attacked?  While the cops watched?  If the Cops are not going to "intervene", exactly WHY do we have them, anyway? 

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 11:00:51 AM »
I hate neutered security guards. :mad:

Yeah, company policy says you don't get involved.  But sometimes you just have to.

I hereby revoke their man-cards.  They can come and claim them from me when they grow some stones.
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Balog

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 11:11:40 AM »
This bus tunnel runs under my building. Westlake is... 2 stops away from me, I think.

I worked security for a while before I enlisted. Policy was always that I should not intervene in anything like this, but I had considered the ramifications and I sure as hell would have. I don't know how anyone could not and still live with themselves. Useless cowards.
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Nick1911

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 11:14:21 AM »
Security theater.  Bleh.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 11:24:08 AM »
dad was fussing something about this earlier. he saw it somewhere else.

Quote
 15-year-old girl punched and repeatedly kicked the victim in the head.

these are kids (teenagers). get loud, athoritative and yank little miss snot off her victim and watch as the others flee.

i don't care how much these guys where out numbered. they are adults in some form of uniform against a bunch of kids. bullies generally don't fight someone bigger and in a "postition of power" (i sarcaastically quote this since these are unarmed security gaurds and thus not powerful, a cop would have gotten that phrase without the quotes or the sarcasiam) unless cornered.
especially not teenage ones.

but yet, i do think there is more going on here.

the pepper spray and this:

Quote
 The victim, who reported that she lost consciousness during the attack, was not hospitalized. She said she has a potentially fatal heart condition, and tried to protect her chest as she was being kicked.

why was the child not taken immediatly to the hospital? a vicious beating, most likely has at least a concussion, not to mention the need to document injuries? and the kid says she has a heart condition. seems to me, unless her parents where on scene and refused medical care, the girl would have been immediatly bussed to the nearest hospital.

i would speculate that this is a case of either, MAJOR FAIL on the part of the cops who where initially involved as well as the security gaurds
or a case of child cries wolf and the wolf gets her
or a combination of both.

in the end i hope the little pack of ferel bullies get metephorically strung up by there heels in courts and juvie for some time and the security gaurds are reemed and ridiculed for watching such an atrocity, and failing to act like adults with any commen sense.
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RevDisk

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 12:14:00 PM »
Security theater.  Bleh.

I don't even know if the majority of "security guards" even qualify as that.  I always just thought of them as a break on the company's insurance premiums, with a cell phone.

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taurusowner

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 12:41:12 PM »
I've done security before I went through the academy, and the whole "don't do anything" varies from place to place.  One company I worked at expected A LOT from us "officers" for only $8 an hour.  We worked a number of apartment complexes in a fairly ghetto area, and the bosses expected us to do stuff like intervene in domestic disputes, effect evictions, and escort trespassers off property.  Another place I worked for had a 100% hands off approach.  We were totally prohibited from even verbally trying to do anything whatsoever.  We were literally an insurance write off with cell phones.  

Honestly, both approaches I think were bad, but that was really the only option.  On one hand, it is smart for the company to tell guards not to do anything at all, and at least in Michigan, the law favors that as well.  Since security guards have no actual authority, and training is essentially nil, it would be pretty stupid and ripe for abuse to have guards actually out there enforcing rules and taking action in disputes.  I always wondered what would have happened if one of the guards at the more "proactive" company got into a real scuffle or got legally called out by someone they had to deal with.  The company basically expected us to act as quasi cops, even though I know the law would NOT have been on our side if anything happened.

But at the same time, I think that with many police departments shrinking, and more and more calls for assistance falling on fewer officers, perhaps having some security guards take some real training and be granted some amount of real authority might help take some strain off police.  Granted most security guards I know are basically fat and worthless and/or police academy failures.  Almost all of them have some variation of "well I was gonna be a cop/soldier/firefighter but my knee/shoulder/back got hurt and I had to quit".  But when I worked, there was a handful that I knew were competent, fit, smart, and were also enlisted in the Army and MPs (none of them including myself are security guards anymore, go figure).  But if while we were still doing security, given our actual training, it would have been interesting if there was some level of legal authority granted us to actual do something when stuff like fights in the parking lot, etc was going down.  Not going to happen I know, but it's interesting to think about.

As far as this actual event, it sucks.  But I can see why they hesitated.  Even police officers get the fear of lawsuits drilled into them enough to make one really think about what they should do vs what they are going to get sued for.  Now, most police have already made the life decision to look past the lawsuits and be committed to doing what is right.  That's how they make it through the academy and through the interview and FTO process.  But for some kid security guard who has never actually analyzed their whole life and decided that acting really is worth it, legal risks and all, I can see where all the "don't do anything" training would make the freeze up.  I don't honestly believe that the three guards just didn't care.  I don't think that sat there lazily watching and not feeling.  I bet they just froze.  The S HTF and the only thing their minds had to fall back on was their boss telling them not to do ANYTHING but be a witness.  There are even some police shootings caught on dash-cam where you can see the officer hesitate, and when interviewed later the cop actually said that he was wondering if he would get in trouble, even when the suspect was pulling a weapon. For some kid who has never taken the time to think about it, yeah, I can honestly see where that would make them just freeze.

HankB

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 12:43:28 PM »
Quote
. . . three unarmed security guards looked on . . .
If I were in a "security" position that required - required! - me to be unarmed, I'd be reluctant to intervene, too.

The only real duty of an unarmed guard is to call police.

Agree that it would be very hard to stand by and do nothing . . . but do the right thing and the odds are you WILL pay for it - big time.

Quote
. . . another 15-year-old girl punched and repeatedly kicked the victim in the head.
I can just see the headlines if a non-LEO even touched the 15 year old. No doubt the guard's employer would immediately fire the guard, refuse to provide legal assistance (company mouthpiece would likely testify against the guard and claim he violated procedure!) and the guard would probably be up on charges of assaulting a child.

On the other hand, note this part of the story:

Quote
Two Seattle police officers noticed the escalating situation and kicked the group out of the Macy's, then brought the girl and her friend to another exit, the victim said. She reported that she asked the officers for an escort to the bus tunnel, just below the department store, but the officers refused.
Seems as if two of Seattle's Finest - who ARE supposed to get involved when there's trouble!! - didn't do their jobs at all.
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jackdanson

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 02:34:05 PM »
Quote
Seems as if two of Seattle's Finest - who ARE supposed to get involved when there's trouble!! - didn't do their jobs at all.

Yeah, agreed.  Most security guards are told not to get involved.  They would have been thrown under the bus if they had gotten involved.

I used to work mall security, but I was on a special team that carried weapons.  I had a vest that was capable of taking multiple .338 lapua shots and usually patrolled the roof with a psg1.  I also had an MP5 under the seat of my electronic transport vehicle.  (ETV)  One time the swat pretty boys were overwhelmed by "The Gap" and we had to move in.  Saved the mayor's son, we did.

MillCreek

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2010, 03:08:39 PM »
^^^ Wasn't that multiple .338 Lapua rounds to the back?
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Ex-MA Hole

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 03:18:05 PM »
When can I get my wheelbarrow back?

One day at a time.

HankB

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2010, 03:18:59 PM »
I used to work mall security, but I was on a special team that carried weapons.  I had a vest that was capable of taking multiple .338 lapua shots and usually patrolled the roof with a psg1.  I also had an MP5 under the seat of my electronic transport vehicle.  (ETV)  One time the swat pretty boys were overwhelmed by "The Gap" and we had to move in.  Saved the mayor's son, we did.
So YOU were the inspiration for the movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1114740/

(I guess they really had to tone down your character, since no one would believe a former SEEL would take a mall job.)  =D =D =D
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 04:16:17 PM »
i'm impressed. security gaurds being discussed and there were 8 whole responces before someone brings up *ta DA!* the Legend.

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Ben

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 05:48:19 PM »
If I were in a "security" position that required - required! - me to be unarmed, I'd be reluctant to intervene, too.

The only real duty of an unarmed guard is to call police.

Agree that it would be very hard to stand by and do nothing . . . but do the right thing and the odds are you WILL pay for it - big time.

I agree that the whole litigiousness thing adds a "not cut and dried" aspect to it. If it were a couple of, or a gang of adults all fighting each other, I could see them calling the police and standing by. The kid aspect, or if it were a rape in progress, or similar, is harder to justify -- at least from my armchair.
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seeker_two

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2010, 07:52:05 PM »
Hired security guards are only there to protect the company that hired them....you're on your own for self-defense.....

...in fact, in a SD situation, I consider security guards as an emergency "supplier" of OC, batons, or even firearms....if you know what I mean....  ;)
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vaskidmark

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2010, 08:34:18 PM »
Hired security guards are only there to protect the company that hired them....you're on your own for self-defense.....

...in fact, in a SD situation, I consider security guards as an emergency "supplier" of OC, batons, or even firearms....if you know what I mean....  ;)

You will get those supplies only after my employer puts them in my cold dead hands. [tinfoil]

As a former private security ossifer in Virginia, it all depended on 1) the contract, 2) the level of certification I had from the state agency responsible for licensing security guards, 3) the contract, 4) the specific post orders developed from the contract, 5) the willingness of the client to assume various liability, 6) the contract, and 7) how much I believed the client and the security company intended to rely on the contract as the rules for my actions.

Even as a Conservator of the Peace - private police with all police powers (including arrest and authority to shoot a fleeing felon in the back) as long as I remained on the client's property - I had to comply with the contract & post orders.  One gig was to take time/date stamped pictures of cars parked after posted hours & call the towing company to have them hauled away, and then fill out a pre-printed form with the relevant info.  Even as a Conservator of the Peace the contract said "call the real cops" if anything else happened, and do not intervene in any way -- as in no pictures, no blowing whistles, no pepper-spray, no touching, no pointing of fingers or other things.  I quit that job about 3 AM one day after taking pictures of an individual attempting to snatch a purse from a female employee of the client.  (She was OK, kept her purse, and the alleged perpetrator got 3 years.  I found another assignment with a new company about 2:30 PM that same day.)

Don't blame security guards - they need to eat too.  Blame the client who refuses to allow the hired help to actually expose the client to any liability by actually doing anything.  Private security guards are not there to protect you but to observe, report and protect the client from liability exposure.  The real cops will come by after the fact, draw chalk lines around your body, and try to figure out who done you in.

stay safe.

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jackdanson

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 02:21:43 AM »
Quote
Even as a Conservator of the Peace - private police with all police powers (including arrest and authority to shoot a fleeing felon in the back)


Hope this was some years ago.  Shooting a fleeing felon is illegal for anyone.  See TN v. Garner.  You may be dating yourself a bit.  :P

Agree with the fact that we shouldn't blame the guards themselves.

taurusowner

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 02:38:13 PM »
Quote
Shooting a fleeing felon is illegal for anyone.  See TN v. Garner.

That is a very broad and incorrect interpretation of TN v. Garner.  The case actually only prohibits the shooting of fleeing felons for property crimes.  If an officer has reason to believe the felon still presents harm to himself or another, deadly force while fleeing is still authorized.

sanglant

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 02:40:04 PM »
according to fox they have armed the guards, and changed the policy.

Balog

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 02:57:15 PM »
according to fox they have armed the guards, and changed the policy.

I took that tunnel yesterday over to Westlake for lunch, guards didn't have guns that I saw.
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sanglant

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 03:18:28 PM »
here's the link with the policy change, the arming must have been someone saying the guards should be armed? ??? at any rate i can't find the vid on there site. :facepalm:

Ned Hamford

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2010, 04:37:59 PM »
That is a very broad and incorrect interpretation of TN v. Garner.  The case actually only prohibits the shooting of fleeing felons for property crimes.  If an officer has reason to believe the felon still presents harm to himself or another, deadly force while fleeing is still authorized.

LOL

He looked like he might be a danger to himself so I shot him.

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mellestad

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Re: Security Guards Watch as Girl Beaten
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2010, 04:52:17 PM »
People are funny...everyone thinks they will step in and help if stuff like this happens, but you see lots of security video of crap like this in the middle of crowds and everyone just watches.  Notice there were quite a few 'civilians' around as well, and no-one jumped in to defend the girl on the ground.  I remember one video inside a full bus, while 20 people watched a gang of young men beat the crap out of a guy and rob him.  One guy got up to intervene and the beat him too, everyone else just looked away.

Makes me think being a bad guy isn't all that risky.

If the girl kicking had been wearing boots instead of sneakers, the victim could have easily been killed.