Author Topic: Audio cabling. What a rip.  (Read 7518 times)

HankB

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2010, 09:26:20 AM »
You will never see double-blind testing done for any "high-end" audio equipment, especially the cabling.  It would show up the bullsh*t for what it is.
Actually, 20 or so years ago, one of the audio magazines actually DID a double-blind audition of Monster Cable, zip cord, and a couple of other choices of speaker wire. Once wire gage went above, IIRC, 18 gage, nobody could hear a difference. Nobody.

Now, it makes sense to have good connectors, but as for the wire itself . . . I bought 12 gage speaker wire from Builder's Square (used to be part of the K-Mart chain) for 13 cents a foot during a half-price sale, and soldered on some decent connectors from a local electronics store. It's still working fine, and the wires haven't worn out from all the electrons passing through.   =D

BTW, you DO realize that the large diameter transparent insulation on Monster speaker wire serves to magnify the image of the wire, making it look bigger than it really is, right?

As far as interconnects go . . . it makes sense to spend a few dollars to upgrade, as the thin-gage stuff the component manufacturers put in the box is prone to failure, kinking, and corrosion/oxidation on the connectors. But if someone tries to sell you a meter long interconnect for hundreds of dollars, the salesman must be thinking you have the word "SUCKER" written on your forehead.

(Applies to video cables, too . . . even on the AV forums, people have caught on that buying a short HDMI cable from Best Buy for $140 is idiocy, when you can get competely functional cables from Amazon.com or monoprice.com for a small fraction of the price.)
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BrokenPaw

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2010, 10:14:09 AM »
The pinnacle of this idiocy (or at least the highest peak that I personally ever observed) was this:  A TosLink (Optical Digital) cable with a gold-plated connector body.  For better signal clarity.  It said so on the box.  :facepalm:
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Ron

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2010, 10:19:45 AM »
For the record my interconnects are all mid level stuff and my speaker cable is off the spool from Radio Shack.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2010, 10:46:34 AM »
A former co-worker was an "audiophile" (I use the term loosely in his case, as he was more of a "spend more $$ than anyone else"). Perhaps I should tell him about the Secret Coat Hanger Audiophile Technique (SCHAT), and offer to sell him a set for $200.

He bought Harmon Kardon, Klipsch, and a lot of other high-end products. The guys at the workplace discovered that, if one of us bought something nice, he would have to go out and buy something better. We finally got together and decided that every payday one of us would announce that he had bought a Super Audio XYZ. Sure enough, our resident audiophile would have to go out and buy something better.

It finally reached a point where his wife blew a fuse about his spending. It was fun while it lasted.

red headed stranger

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 10:53:40 AM »

(Applies to video cables, too . . . even on the AV forums, people have caught on that buying a short HDMI cable from Best Buy for $140 is idiocy, when you can get competely functional cables from Amazon.com or monoprice.com for a small fraction of the price.)

Yup.  I shop monoprice for as much of my cabling needs as possible.  

What is really funny about some of these uber-audiofiles that dump so much money into their systems is that many of them are older men who haven't been able to hear 20kHz in years.  To use a firearms analogy, it's like those guys that dump thousands in to uber-custom rifles when they still can't outshoot a rack grade milsurp.  
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mellestad

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2010, 12:07:45 PM »
Yup.  I shop monoprice for as much of my cabling needs as possible.  

What is really funny about some of these uber-audiofiles that dump so much money into their systems is that many of them are older men who haven't been able to hear 20kHz in years.  To use a firearms analogy, it's like those guys that dump thousands in to uber-custom rifles when they still can't outshoot a rack grade milsurp.  

No kidding...and human hearing isn't all that great to begin with.

roo_ster

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2010, 12:47:14 PM »

He bought Harmon Kardon, Klipsch, and a lot of other high-end products. The guys at the workplace discovered that, if one of us bought something nice, he would have to go out and buy something better. We finally got together and decided that every payday one of us would announce that he had bought a Super Audio XYZ. Sure enough, our resident audiophile would have to go out and buy something better.

I used to do something similar to a fellow gun nut with more money than wisdom.

I got to try out a lot of high-end stuff, though...
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2010, 01:34:13 PM »
Found my audio connector cabling - Belden 2 conductor, 16 awg, 100% shielded.  $29 for 60' of cable, ends, and a stick of heat shrink.  Plus, I can make it to length rather than trying to deal with a couple extra feet of unecessary cable..  Beats the crap out of premade, prettied up, and way overpriced patch cables for $20 each.  At 1/4" dia per cable will darn sure be easier to run and find space for than the thick-as-my-thumb premade stuff.  More than likely better shielded, too.

Hope it's nice out tomorrow! =D

Brad
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 01:51:14 PM by Brad Johnson »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2010, 01:41:49 PM »
I used to do something similar to a fellow gun nut with more money than wisdom.

I got to try out a lot of high-end stuff, though...

my boss had a neighbor, an engineer/motorhead , with a greenie streak.  he was sure he could tweak and tune his family car to get uber mileage. we helped him. by sneaking over and pouring gas in his tank each night.  he was like a lil kid. so excited.  we went a couple months then we reversed it. put in less and less he was undoing his latest tweaks trying anything. when we got to siphoning it to get the mileage into low numbers he was a broken man. we finally told him.  his wife was in on it.  she "distracted " him while we raided his garage.  wasn't a total waste they ended up having another kid
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Gewehr98

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2010, 01:57:40 PM »
Quote
No it's actually not a good analogy, because cables don't matter, and ammo does. That would be a good analogy for using high-quality recordings in your stereo system, something that actually does matter.

Actually, if you've read my posts in this thread further, as well as HTG's and others, it's a good analogy.  You don't have to buy Monster Cables, but you also don't want ratty-assed corroded zip cord with wire nuts holding it all together for several ohm's loss over just a few feet.

Quote
What is really funny about some of these uber-audiofiles that dump so much money into their systems is that many of them are older men who haven't been able to hear 20kHz in years.  To use a firearms analogy, it's like those guys that dump thousands in to uber-custom rifles when they still can't outshoot a rack grade milsurp. 


I know I ain't helping this thread much, but some of us still can hear 20kHz, and I shoot F-Class and 1000yd precision stuff.  You don't want to know what's sunk into my Remington 40X.   ;)

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2010, 02:52:25 PM »
Treatise on speaker wire by Roger Russel, honorary life member of the Audio Engineering Society and acoustic design engineer and 25-year veteran (including Director of Acoustic Research) for McIntosh (back before they were bought by Clarion).  His conclusion?  So long as the wire is properly sized for the current loading and not suffering from some kind of manufacturing or metallurgical defect, there is no humanly discernable difference between uber-cable and plain old lamp cord.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


And his guide to truth in audio.  It's a, no-holds-barred, unrelenting, and completely unapologetic in-your-face technical rant on "audio snobs".  (Warning, if you are an audio snob, cover your toes and take some extra BP meds before reading...)

http://www.roger-russell.com/truth/truth.htm

(I'm currently reading through the rest of the site.  Way interesting and extremely informative, if a bit on the dry and technical side.)

Brad
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:35:08 PM by Brad Johnson »
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Gewehr98

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2010, 04:27:54 PM »
Good technical info, Brad.

Reinforces my assertion that you purchase a minimum grade of wire for your purposes, although IMHO for automotive use you don't run Klipschorns to a McIntosh amp, so you're probably ok with a lower grade cable - assuming you keep the connections clean and tight, etc.

And for the record, you'll never see me playing proponent for the overpriced Monster Cable speaker wires, or any of the other variations on that theme.  I enjoy my audiophile toys, but even I have my limits on some of the silliness.   ;)
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2010, 07:23:56 PM »
Heh.

Now that we've established that cables don't matter (to a point), I'd like to point out that sometimes they do.  A fair amount of the bleeding edge high end gear is only marginally stable, or only able to drive the easiest loads.  And some of the super exotic cables can have really weird impedance profiles.  It's possible that certain combinations of gear and cable can result in oscillations or frequency shifts or other effects that are very real and very audible.  In those cases, switching from one type of cable to another might really improve things.

Thing is, in those circumstances switching "down" from exotic cables to mundane cables (of adequate quality) might actually be the best solution.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »
Russell talks about that.  Can't remember the mfg, but it was a cable with a bunch of seperately insulated strands.  Low impedance, high capacitance.

Brad
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crt360

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2010, 08:56:08 PM »

I know I ain't helping this thread much, but some of us still can hear 20kHz, . .   ;)



I can hear something around 17kHz.  All the time.  I can't see it, but it follows me around, everywhere I go.  [tinfoil]

Honestly, I can't say I've ever found pleasure in hearing anything higher.   ???  =)

As for audio cable, I (my ears) agree with others here.  You don't have to spend much for quality home or car audio cable.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2010, 09:07:15 PM »
I'm actually glad the world is moving away from CRTs to LCD/DLP/Plasma.

Some CRT flyback transformers drove me absolutely bonkers with their high-pitched whining.  (Not unlike Wife #1)
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2010, 09:13:25 PM »
Russell talks about that.  Can't remember the mfg, but it was a cable with a bunch of seperately insulated strands.  Low impedance, high capacitance.

Brad
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Regolith

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2010, 09:15:53 PM »
I'm actually glad the world is moving away from CRTs to LCD/DLP/Plasma.

Some CRT flyback transformers drove me absolutely bonkers with their high-pitched whining.  (Not unlike Wife #1)

Unfortunately, LCDs will sometimes emit high-pitched whining, which I found out recently. However, it doesn't last for long, as it is a sign of imminent magic smoke release...which is why I'm now using a CRT.   :mad:
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Jim147

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Re: Audio cabling. What a rip.
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2010, 09:35:05 PM »
Unfortunately, LCDs will sometimes emit high-pitched whining, which I found out recently. However, it doesn't last for long, as it is a sign of imminent magic smoke release...which is why I'm now using a CRT.   :mad:

Magic smoke. It has a bouquet all it's own. ;)

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