Author Topic: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time  (Read 5004 times)

Desertdog

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Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« on: March 24, 2010, 02:26:33 PM »
This is the main way I see to protect the ships from pirates.  In the story is this statement; "The killing raises questions over who has jurisdiction over a growing army of armed guards on merchant ships flying flags from many nations".   To me, the Captain is in charge of protecting the ship, the crew, and the cargo, by any means possible including the use of deadly force.

Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time

AP
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/24/private-guards-kill-somali-pirate-time/


The death comes amid fears that increasingly aggressive pirates and the growing use of armed private security contractors onboard vessels could fuel increased violence on the high seas.

NAIROBI, Kenya -- In the first killing of its kind, private security contractors shot dead a Somali pirate in a clash that left two skiffs riddled with bullet holes, officials said Wednesday.

The killing raises questions over who has jurisdiction over a growing army of armed guards on merchant ships flying flags from many nations.

There's currently no regulation of private security onboard ships, no guidelines about who is responsible in case of an attack, and no industrywide standards, said piracy expert Roger Middleton from the British think tank Chatham House.

"There's no guarantee of the quality of individuals you are going to get," said Middleton. "If you're a shipping company, that could be legally concerning. It's also concerning to everyone if you have individuals with guns and not much oversight out on the seas."

The exact circumstances of Tuesday's shooting are unclear, but the European Union Naval Force said guards were onboard the Panama-flagged MV Almezaan when a pirate group approached it twice. On the second approach, there was a shoot-out between the guards and the pirates.

An EU Naval Force frigate was dispatched to the scene and launched a helicopter that located the pirates. Seven pirates were found, including one who died from small-caliber gunshot wounds, indicating he had been shot by the detachment onboard the Almezaan, and not by the helicopter gunship, said Cmdr. John Harbour, the EU Naval Force spokesman.

The pirates had two small skiffs and a larger ship -- a whaler -- believed to be a mothership for food and fuel.

"Once the skiffs and the whaler had been intercepted it was discovered that one of them contained a dead body that had sustained several small-caliber bullet impacts. Numerous bullet impacts were also visible on the skiffs and bullet casings as well as arms and munition of different caliber were found aboard," said a statement from the Spanish Ministry of Defense.

Spanish forces aboard the warship Navarra arrested the six remaining pirates, took custody of the pirate's body and sunk the larger boat, the ministry said. Spain planned to give the body to the Somali government and transfer the suspects to Kenya or the Seychelles for prosecution if the cargo ship's crew identified the detainees as their attackers.

Legal experts said there is no consensus on who is responsible for investigating the incident, and there are several possibilities: Panama, whose flag the Almezaan flies; the United Arab Emirates, where the ship's owners are based; or the nation which the security contractors come from, which has not yet been made public.

"This will be scrutinized very closely," said Arvinder Sambei, a legal consultant for the U.N.'s anti-piracy program. "There's always been concern about these (private security) companies. Who are they responsible to? ... The bottom line is somebody has been killed and someone has to give an accounting of that."

So far, laws governing private security contractors have generally reacted to specific abuses rather than attempting to prevent such abuses, said Patrick Cullen, an international relations lecturer at the Barcelona-based International Politics Institute and the co-author of an upcoming book on private maritime security companies.

"Regulating maritime security companies is a very gray area," he said.

Violent confrontations between ships and pirates are on the rise. Crews are becoming adept at repelling attacks by pirates and many more ship owners are using private security guards. Pirates are becoming more aggressive in response, shooting firearms and firing rocket-propelled grenades at ships to try to intimidate captains into stopping.

The International Maritime Bureau says 39 ships were fired off Somalia and in the Gulf of Aden in 2008, but that number increased to 114 ships by 2009. Earlier this month there were four separate shoot-outs in a single day between pirates, security guards and military personnel aboard commercial vessels.

Several organizations, including the International Maritime Bureau, have expressed fears that the use of armed security contractors could encourage pirates to be more violent in their approach.

In Somali waters, it is often difficult to distinguish between pirates and fishermen until the boats are very close. Maritime experts have expressed fears that jittery security guards could accidentally open fire on ordinary Somalis.

Pirate attacks have not declined despite patrols by dozens of warships off the Somali coast. The amount of ocean to patrol is too vast to protect every ship and pirates have responded to the increased naval presence by moving attacks farther out to sea.

Experts say piracy is just one symptom of the general collapse of law and order in the failed state of Somalia, which has not had a functioning government in 19 years. They say attacks on shipping will continue as long as there is no central government capable of taking on the well-armed and well-paid pirate gangs.


just Warren

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 02:31:46 PM »
This may be the first time since this recent rash of piracy happened. This is not the first time a seamerc has killed a Somali pirate.

I have no link but I remember an article where a team of private marines would set a bait ship and wait for pirates to come to them and then kill them.

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 02:32:49 PM »
Quote
It's also concerning to everyone if you have individuals with guns and not much oversight out on the seas."

You mean... like PIRATES?

Quote
An EU Naval Force frigate was dispatched to the scene and launched a helicopter that located the pirates. Seven pirates were found, including one who died from small-caliber gunshot wounds, indicating he had been shot by the detachment onboard the Almezaan, and not by the helicopter gunship, said Cmdr. John Harbour, the EU Naval Force spokesman.

Subliminal message embedded in the story:  How dare you shoot OUR pirates!?!  We're the only AUTHORIZED pirate shooters!

Quote
"This will be scrutinized very closely," said Arvinder Sambei, a legal consultant for the U.N.'s anti-piracy program. "There's always been concern about these (private security) companies. Who are they responsible to? ... The bottom line is somebody has been killed [by someone other than those "authorized" to do the killin'] and someone has to give an accounting of that."

Yup.  UN-driven seafaring disarmament.  After all, it's for the pirate-children!
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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »
Governments really like their monopoly on the use of force.

Balog

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 04:02:51 PM »
The EU has it's own naval force? How does that work, since it's a conglomerate of countries with disparate languages?
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 04:20:56 PM »
You know... if I were the type to work on a merchant vessel plying those waters and I didn't have a security crew or firearms aboard...

I'm sure something discrete could be rigged using air compressors or even a combustion chamber fed with gasoline.

Considering what bubba can do with potato cannons and pumpkin chuckers, I bet a ship's chief engineer could whip up a hell of a smoothbore cannon and some properly fitted projectiles for it.  Take a 50 gallon air reservoir at 150psi and dump that into the bore obstruction behind a 2" diameter steel penetrator that is 4-5 inches long and you can probably get it moving over 700fps with enough barrel and a large enough relief valve (trigger) between the reservoir and the chamber.  I bet the chief could even put some fins on the slug to get it to rifle/spin through the air.

Shoot it from 30+ feet above the ocean's surface and learn its trajectory, and you can dominate everything around you for half a kilometer or more.

If you run it off combustion rather than compression then you can probably bet at least twice that velocity as long as it is properly reinforced to handle the pressure.

Then disassemble it and store the pieces in your stock spare parts bin and tool shop when you come in to port.
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just Warren

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 04:45:27 PM »
I was thinking of something like that when I was fantasizing about my around-the-world catamaran cruise.

Though on a smaller scale, of course.

Keep a bunch of pre-charged airguns around and available for when sailing but break them down into innocent looking spares or furnishings for when in port. The key is that they in no way look like guns which means ergonomically they will be less than optimum.
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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 05:46:01 PM »
The EU has it's own naval force? How does that work, since it's a conglomerate of countries with disparate languages?
Our "betters" *spits* are attempting to make the EU into something resembling the US, without having any of the good things that your Founding Fathers saw fit to implement into your Constitution.

I think we've sent down a ship or two as well.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 05:50:49 PM »
if i was creating a weapon my word for the day would be flame thrower and everybody gets cooked.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HankB

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 06:06:24 PM »
Quote
"This will be scrutinized very closely," said Arvinder Sambei, a legal consultant for the U.N.'s anti-piracy program. "There's always been concern about these (private security) companies. Who are they responsible to? ... The bottom line is somebody has been killed and someone has to give an accounting of that."
The most logical reason for the outrage over the death of a PIRATE who was engaging in PIRACY is that someone "official" was getting a cut of the take.

And dead pirates have no booty to share.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 06:11:52 PM »
The comments from the pansy at the British think tank are simply disgusting. Imagine ... some people are not only shooting at pirates, they actually KILLED someone who was shootig at them. What's this world comng to, anyway?

and then there's this:

Quote
Legal experts said there is no consensus on who is responsible for investigating the incident, and there are several possibilities: Panama, whose flag the Almezaan flies; the United Arab Emirates, where the ship's owners are based; or the nation which the security contractors come from, which has not yet been made public.

"This will be scrutinized very closely," said Arvinder Sambei, a legal consultant for the U.N.'s anti-piracy program. "There's always been concern about these (private security) companies. Who are they responsible to? ... The bottom line is somebody has been killed and someone has to give an accounting of that."

So far, laws governing private security contractors have generally reacted to specific abuses rather than attempting to prevent such abuses, said Patrick Cullen, an international relations lecturer at the Barcelona-based International Politics Institute and the co-author of an upcoming book on private maritime security companies.

Accounting? I'd say the ship's captain should give the accounting. "The attacked us and fired on us, so we fired back." End of report. What more accounting could possibly be needed? Let's face it -- the guy who was killed was a freakin' PIRATE.

As if we needed more proof that the U.N. is an irrelevant parasite.
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mellestad

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 06:13:40 PM »
Yea, as far as I know they are prefectly within their rights to kill pirates themselves.

By now I imagine it is just an additional cost to most of the shippers.  Besides, what else are they supposed to do?  Heck, what is anyone supposed to do?  I imagine putting enough military force to cover the entire danger zone is ridiculously expensive...cheaper to just arm the civilians and deal with the fallout when something tragic happens.  That is what I would do anyway...it isn't like you need to move a carrier group in to fight off the fishing boats full of guys with AK's and rpgs.

The Lone Haranguer

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 07:48:10 PM »
Far from begetting more violence, properly applied violence reduces it in the long run.    At the very least, they will learn to leave UAE ships alone.

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 07:49:49 PM »
Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time


Who will kill him the second?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 10:46:00 PM »
first time?  or first time a body remained?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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never_retreat

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »
I know we have the old saying Shoot, shovel, shut up.
What about Shoot, sink, shut up?

No one is going to miss them.
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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 12:33:00 AM »
You know... if I were the type to work on a merchant vessel plying those waters and I didn't have a security crew or firearms aboard...

I'm sure something discrete could be rigged using air compressors or even a combustion chamber fed with gasoline.

Considering what bubba can do with potato cannons and pumpkin chuckers, I bet a ship's chief engineer could whip up a hell of a smoothbore cannon and some properly fitted projectiles for it.  Take a 50 gallon air reservoir at 150psi and dump that into the bore obstruction behind a 2" diameter steel penetrator that is 4-5 inches long and you can probably get it moving over 700fps with enough barrel and a large enough relief valve (trigger) between the reservoir and the chamber.  I bet the chief could even put some fins on the slug to get it to rifle/spin through the air.

Shoot it from 30+ feet above the ocean's surface and learn its trajectory, and you can dominate everything around you for half a kilometer or more.

If you run it off combustion rather than compression then you can probably bet at least twice that velocity as long as it is properly reinforced to handle the pressure.

Then disassemble it and store the pieces in your stock spare parts bin and tool shop when you come in to port.

I am interested in your system and would like to know more.

Please send me a pamphlet.
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Mabs2

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 12:45:59 AM »
My boat would have quad 10/22s rigged with some kind of crank system.
That'll show them pirates.
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sanglant

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 01:10:44 AM »
My boat would have quad 10/22s rigged with some kind of crank system.
That'll show them pirates.
got blenders on board? then lose the crank at sea. >:D

Desertdog

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 01:35:43 AM »
Quote
My boat would have quad 10/22s rigged with some kind of crank system.
My idea was dual .50 calibers mounted on bow, stern, and each side.  I  think now,  that quads would be better. 

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 01:39:55 AM »
Eh, .50 cals aren't sporting enough. Use PIATs!  =D

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 03:42:43 AM »
Cutlass and flintlocks.  =D

I was thinking of something like that when I was fantasizing about my around-the-world catamaran cruise.

Though on a smaller scale, of course.

Keep a bunch of pre-charged airguns around and available for when sailing but break them down into innocent looking spares or furnishings for when in port. The key is that they in no way look like guns which means ergonomically they will be less than optimum.
This is very, very easy to do.  Loss of ergonomics might not even have to be an issue, even.  Biggest drawback I can think of is the effect of constant salt air on a system as comparatively fragile and complex as an air rifle.
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just Warren

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 03:52:01 AM »
Eh, .50 cals aren't sporting enough. Use PIATs!  =D

That's a bit too sporting, V-Pro.
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just Warren

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 03:56:15 AM »

This is very, very easy to do.  Loss of ergonomics might not even have to be an issue, even.  Biggest drawback I can think of is the effect of constant salt air on a system as comparatively fragile and complex as an air rifle.

What is it that keeps electronics and hydraulics and gearing and such from being compromised? And can those methods be used on a small pneumatic system like an air gun?
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sanglant

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Re: Private Guards Kill Somali Pirate for First Time
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2010, 04:05:26 AM »
You mean... like PIRATES?

Subliminal message embedded in the story:  How dare you shoot OUR pirates!?!  We're the only AUTHORIZED pirate shooters!

Yup.  UN-driven seafaring disarmament.  After all, it's for the pirate-children!
hmm, pirate-children bingo bongo i just figured it out. we need to send in Peter Pan. [popcorn]