Pistol: Fire damaged polymer

[mellestad]

Anyone here have experience with repair of fire damage to polymers?

My house burned down in December and I was able to 'rescue' one pistol but it got...a bit warm.  If anyone here thinks they might be able to give advice I'll take some some pics of the damage.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Let your insurance agent handle it.  If there's any heat damage at all, it's best to write the whole thing off as a loss.

[mellestad]

It has already been written off as a loss, I'm just curious if it could be recovered and shot safely.  The internal mechanisms, springs etc. still work, and since the polymer isn't all goo the metal bits should still hold up.

Besides, I'm emotionally attached to the gun, every other firearm I owned was stolen in September and this one avoided that fate only to be torched a month later.  Poor little guy. :(

[lupinus]

I wouldn't try it. Even if it didn't all turn to melty goo, heat that high certainly screwed with it's structure. It's like a piece of steel that's been heated high enough long enough to mess up the temper. Sure, it looks fine. But when put under stress you never know what it'll do. Plastics may not go through heat treating but that high a heat and then cool down can certainly weaken/make brittle/harder/softer/etc. the polymer.

Same goes for the internal springs and things. Sure it looks OK, but is it? Do you really know? Big sturdy parts like the barrel and slide may be fine, but all the little springs and such?

I wouldn't trust it. Remember you're holding a device in your hand that basically contains a small explosion, the shooting of a bullet is a byproduct of that explosion. If it has value to you, use it as a nifty paperweight and call it a day.

[Perd Hapley]

I wouldn't try it. Even if it didn't all turn to melty goo, heat that high certainly screwed with it's structure. It's like a piece of steel that's been heated high enough long enough to mess up the temper. Sure, it looks fine. But when put under stress you never know what it'll do. Plastics may not go through heat treating but that high a heat and then cool down can certainly weaken/make brittle/harder/softer/etc. the polymer.

Same goes for the internal springs and things. Sure it looks OK, but is it? Do you really know? Big sturdy parts like the barrel and slide may be fine, but all the little springs and such?

I wouldn't trust it. Remember you're holding a device in your hand that basically contains a small explosion, the shooting of a bullet is a byproduct of that explosion. If it has value to you, use it as a nifty paperweight and call it a day.

This.  I'm no metallurgist, but that seems like enough heat to damage the metal in ways you can't see.  (Unless you're a 9/11 truther.    )

If you really want to shoot it, see if a gunsmith can test it for you.  Unless you want to try a Ransom rest, or the old tire and string remote shooting method. 

[seeker_two]

Trash it.....take the insurance money....and run to the gun store for a replacement.  It's not worth your safety to "salvage" anything from it....

[Doggy Daddy]

Encase it in a block of acrylic.  Make a paperweight out of it.

DD

[roo_ster]

Honestly, I would remove the firing pin and use it as a paper weight, wall hanger, etc. 

I'd hate to see something like the following from you in a month or two:

hey,sorry about the long absencefrum aps.ishould have listened nd ot shot my old ploy pistl.  now, ihave blownn oft hree fingers and cant type very welll.  take itf rom me,don't shoot a gum if itwad in af fire111!!!

[Matthew Carberry]

Rich Lucibella lost some guns in a house fire.  Several were brought back to life.  House fire temperatures are probably not enough to really mess with the steel's temper (a mettleurgist could check).

You might contact the manufacturer, they might be willing to make a deal if it is still functional or something.

[PTK]

As a gunsmith, I strongly recommend against thinking of that object as a firearm anymore.

[kgbsquirrel]

As a gunsmith, I strongly recommend against thinking of that object as a firearm anymore.

Seconded.

[Matthew Carberry]

Sissies

[PTK]

Liability-aware sissies. 

[Matthew Carberry]

Liability-aware sissies. 

liability-awareness, the last refuge of the coward.

[seeker_two]

Sissies

Not true.....I like objects forcefully exploding in my hand and near my face just as much as the next guy.....

[AJ Dual]

Ransom rest, and a long string.

[PTK]

To the folks saying "Ransom rest";

Proof loads don't do what they say. All a proof load proves is that the gun can (or cannot) withstand that one shot - period. I've seen a proper demonstration of sorts, courtesy of a chatty gent at an indoor range back in Ohio - five rounds fired in total, identical in loading all factory ammo. First one fired fine in a BHP recovered from a fire. Second round fired fine, so he took it out of the rest and fired another two. Loaded the mag up with another few rounds, and on the fifth round, it appeared that the barrel split. That guy sure left the range in a hurry, parts in a bag and hand hurting. At least he was wearing glasses....

Testing a firearm that has been damaged by heat is a very tricky business, and either involves destructive testing or fairly expensive testing, far exceeding the value of the gun.

It really is cheaper to simply replace. Plus, what's your life worth? 

[AJ Dual]

I'm certainly not advocating it as safe for use after ANY number of rounds.

Just the "Hmm... That's interesting" factor of it. See if it works, if the slide flies off etc.

[mellestad]

As a gunsmith, I strongly recommend against thinking of that object as a firearm anymore.

Without even seeing the damage?   

[AJ Dual]

Generally, any amount of heat that would change the temper of the metal components would leave the polymer frame a puddle in the gun safe.

The risk here is that the barrel and slide assembly, and the metal components such as the slide rails and locking block that the barrel and slide depend on may no longer be in proper alignment. At the instant of firing, the barrel and slide are probably just fine, but the slide may not stay on the frame, or the barrel link engagement notch may not be keeping it locked.

I think the temptation is to use such a gun if it were proven "reliable", as a tackle-box gun, trunk gun, or a deep storage last-ditch tertiary backup pistol of some kind. Because of the environment of storage, or the lack of security, you wouldn't mind (too much) if it got cosmetic rust, or were stolen. Of course, it can't be proven "reliable", since you don't know that it might fail on the 51st round, the 101st round, or the 11th. etc. And IMO, if things were so dire that you needed to go to that gun, wouldn't you want one you could trust absolutely?

[mellestad]

Generally, any amount of heat that would change the temper of the metal components would leave the polymer frame a puddle in the gun safe.

The risk here is that the barrel and slide assembly, and the metal components such as the slide rails and locking block that the barrel and slide depend on may no longer be in proper alignment. At the instant of firing, the barrel and slide are probably just fine, but the slide may not stay on the frame, or the barrel link engagement notch may not be keeping it locked.

I think the temptation is to use such a gun if it were proven "reliable", as a tackle-box gun, trunk gun, or a deep storage last-ditch tertiary backup pistol of some kind. Because of the environment of storage, or the lack of security, you wouldn't mind (too much) if it got cosmetic rust, or were stolen. Of course, it can't be proven "reliable", since you don't know that it might fail on the 51st round, the 101st round, or the 11th. etc. And IMO, if things were so dire that you needed to go to that gun, wouldn't you want one you could trust absolutely?

Considering the extent of the damage I'm not worried about it blowing up, I was mostly intersted to know if anyone had any experience repairing polymer damage.  The only damage to the metal bits is the fact that it was soaked with fire hoses, then frozen for about two weeks before I found it.  I might have to replace some of the springs just because of that damage, but the barral and slide are fine.  If it had been hot enough to hurt the larger metal parts I don't think there would be anything left of the plastics surrounding them, and the plastics damage is mostly confined to the grip.  Heck, the foam of the guncase around the frame and barral is still intact.

I probably should have posted pics straight away so I didn't get people telling me it is a hand-grenade waiting to happen, so that is my fault for being imprecise.

So, does anyone have any experience working with damage to polymers?

(Edit:  And it isn't a home defense gun or anything, it is just a .22LR plinker I got as a present.)

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Without even seeing the damage?   

Doesn't matter what it looks like.  This isn't the kind of damage the human eye can reveal for you.

[PTK]

Without even seeing the damage?   

Yes, without even seeing the damage. If the heat was enough to cause any visible damage to polymer, it's ruined, regardless if the metal "looks okay". It's not a firearm anymore, for all practical purposes.

Feel free to fire it, realize fully that there is a chance of death regardless of it being round #1 or round #50 through it post-fire.

[Nick1911]

I wouldn't, personally.

Seems like a recipe for disaster. 

And if the resident evil, mad engineer wouldn't do it, that should tell you something! 

[PTK]

I wouldn't, personally.

Seems like a recipe for disaster. 

And if the resident evil, mad engineer wouldn't do it, that should tell you something! 

Plus two resident gunsmiths saying don't do it, too...