Author Topic: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?  (Read 54201 times)

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2010, 01:12:16 PM »
What other circumstances?

Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #176 on: April 28, 2010, 01:14:31 PM »
What other circumstances?


The photog's demeanour when spoken to, chiefly. Much like a guy open carrying while ranting incoherently; not illegal per se, but plenty damn suspicious.
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

makattak

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #177 on: April 28, 2010, 01:16:43 PM »
I've read most of this thread and it feels like the main disagreement is in the level of risk associated with someone taking pics in a park.  Some people seem to think a person doing this is likely to be possibly a predator, others seem to think this is unlikely.  No one seems to be concerned with expressing that portion of their opinion.

As I've said many times, someone who appears to be taking pictures of children will get a friendly, "hey, what's going on?"

I understand that most likely he isn't a predator which is why you approach him to make certain.


Just like with open carrying, I'd prefer people just come up and ask what's going on. If I respond calmly and tell them I want to be able to protect myself and my family and they call they cops, they're nuts. If I respond with screams of "None of your business!" and "It's my right; don't like it? SHOVE OFF!" I will likely get a discussion with the police and although I may be within my rights, I'm the one that's nuts.

Of course, some people think the second example is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with others in a public setting.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #178 on: April 28, 2010, 01:18:48 PM »

The photog's demeanour when spoken to, chiefly. Much like a guy open carrying while ranting incoherently; not illegal per se, but plenty damn suspicious.

A demeanor caused by you pestering him in the first place.

makattak

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #179 on: April 28, 2010, 01:20:08 PM »
A demeanor caused by you pestering him in the first place.

Yep, how dare someone approach a person in a public place and ask a question. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT!111!
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2010, 01:20:15 PM »
Quote
Just like with open carrying, I'd prefer people just come up and ask what's going on.

And when I open carry, I prefer people to mind their own damn business and not run their mouths at me when I'm out doing what I need to do.

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2010, 01:22:29 PM »
Yep, how dare someone approach a person in a public place and ask a question. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT!111!

You can do whatever you want.  But if you actions piss me off, that is on you not me.  You cannot provoke an ill response and then say that response is a reason for you to be more suspicious.

Do you really not see that you, the annoying parent, are the catalyst for every single negative escalation in this entire scenario?

Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #182 on: April 28, 2010, 01:27:03 PM »
A demeanor caused by you pestering him in the first place.

I think this is the crux of the problem. Most people do not view a person speaking to them in a public place as an affront. If you are unable to cope with simple human interaction expect people to find your mundane actions suspicious.

You can do whatever you want.  But if you actions piss me off, that is on you not me.  You cannot provoke an ill response and then say that response is a reason for you to be more suspicious.

Do you really not see that you, the annoying parent, are the catalyst for every single negative escalation in this entire scenario?

You don't have a right to not be offended. I suggest you either deal with it, or leave the public area. Or does that logic only apply to parents? And again, if you can't cope with basic human interactions without freaking out and over reacting, that's your problem and you need to accept the consequences.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #183 on: April 28, 2010, 01:36:29 PM »
I would completely and utterly ignore you.  And if you think that is reason enough for you to think I am extra suspicious, you have issues.

makattak

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #184 on: April 28, 2010, 01:39:00 PM »
Just to clarify (again), people are suggesting storming up to every photographer screaming, "WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING PHOTOGRAPHING MY KIDS, PERVERT!?!?!"

We're suggesting approaching in a calm and polite manner and explain our concerns.

If you can't prevent yourself from escalating a situation over a polite question, maybe you shouldn't go out?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #185 on: April 28, 2010, 01:42:31 PM »
The questioning itself is the initiation/escalation.  I don't owe you an account of my thoughts or actions.  And you thinking I do because in your emotional mind everything is subservient to your kids is an affront.

makattak

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #186 on: April 28, 2010, 01:43:12 PM »
I would completely and utterly ignore you.  And if you think that is reason enough for you to think I am extra suspicious, you have issues.

That is suspicious. Someone ignoring a simple question that would take half a breath to answer and not even require that they look up from their camera indicates something is wrong with them.

Heck even a, "Sorry, I'm really trying to concentrate for these photos for __________ (my class, my job, my client, my hobby), could you please let me continue" would be fine. That's yet another normal response.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #187 on: April 28, 2010, 01:44:24 PM »
The questioning itself is the initiation/escalation.  I don't owe you an account of my thoughts or actions.  And you thinking I do because in your emotional mind everything is subservient to your kids is an affront.

Wow.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Hawkmoon

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #188 on: April 28, 2010, 02:05:29 PM »
I think this is the crux of the problem. Most people do not view a person speaking to them in a public place as an affront. If you are unable to cope with simple human interaction expect people to find your mundane actions suspicious.

But most of the anti-photographer posts in this discussion begin with the assumption that anyone who is taking pictures that might include children MUST be a pervert/pedophile and that the photographer MUST be accosted and asked to explain himself. As an amateur photographer, I think that's annoying. I'm "into" cameras and photography much as I am "into" guns and cars. I love cameras and taking pictures. If I'm out shooting and someone wants to come over and chat about which model of Canon I have, why I prefer Canon to Nikon, what lens I'm using, how do I handle depth of field, etc., I'm happy to spend some time (within reason) discussing photography.

If someone who doesn't know jack about cameras walks up, though, and wants to know,"What are you doing?" my answer is probably going to be a curt "Taking pictures, what does it look like I'm doing?" And if the other person doesn't take the hint that I'm not interested in chatting up a total stranger about whatever HE wants to talk about, that's his problem. Having him try to make it MY problem by calling a cop because I am engaged in a lawful activity in a public place is harassment, nothing more, nothing less.

Let's remember -- this thread is not about someone who hides a camera in the girls locker room at the gymnasium or in the daughter's bedroom of their neighbor's house. This discussion is about a person with a camera in a PUBLIC park, where any children who might (or might not) be in some or all of the photos are presumably clothed at least to normal degrees. Thus, all presumptions that the photographer's action are "suspicious" are on the part of and in the mind of the parental unit. The photographer is doing NOTHING illegal.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #189 on: April 28, 2010, 02:31:07 PM »
If you can't prevent yourself from escalating a situation over a polite question, maybe you shouldn't go out?

If you can't convince yourself that asking complete strangers questions that are none of your business is not polite, maybe you shouldn't go out.

MechAg94

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #190 on: April 28, 2010, 02:31:58 PM »
But most of the anti-photographer posts in this discussion begin with the assumption that anyone who is taking pictures that might include children MUST be a pervert/pedophile and that the photographer MUST be accosted and asked to explain himself.
Actually, they don't as far as I can see.  Certainly not anywhere near "most".  
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Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #191 on: April 28, 2010, 02:33:38 PM »
But most of the anti-photographer posts in this discussion begin with the assumption that anyone who is taking pictures that might include children MUST be a pervert/pedophile and that the photographer MUST be accosted and asked to explain himself.

No one has said anything remotely resembling that and I challenge you to quote anyone who has. But keep on beating that strawman.


Quote
The photographer is doing NOTHING illegal.

You do understand the difference between reporting a crime in progress and reporting suspicious activity, right? Cause it kinda seems like you don't.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #192 on: April 28, 2010, 02:34:20 PM »
If you can't convince yourself that asking complete strangers questions that are none of your business is not polite, maybe you shouldn't go out.

I really wonder how some of you people function in normal life.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #193 on: April 28, 2010, 02:35:15 PM »
Yep, how dare someone approach a person in a public place and ask a question. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT!111!

If you see a guy surrounded by guys in suits, carrying briefcases and wearing earpieces, do you go over and chat him up?  Why would you then assume that someone carrying a significant amount of valuable equipment would be less likely to see your unwarranted inquisitiveness as a setup to a robbery?

Plain and simple; if you were actually trying to keep the kids safe, your only reasonable action would be to remove them from the situation.


Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #194 on: April 28, 2010, 02:36:53 PM »
So the logical assumption when someone asks you a question is that they are setting you up for robbery, but the logical assumption for someone taking pictures of your kid is that they're totally innocent. Gotcha.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #195 on: April 28, 2010, 02:37:44 PM »
I really wonder how some of you people function in normal life.

Normal life doesn't involve approaching and harassing people, then trying to pass it off as "protecting the children."

KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #196 on: April 28, 2010, 02:39:14 PM »
So the logical assumption when someone asks you a question is that they are setting you up for robbery, but the logical assumption for someone taking pictures of your kid is that they're totally innocent. Gotcha.

Taking pictures in a public place is not approaching a stranger out of the blue in a threatening manner.

Yes, it is threatening when you've already stated your intent is to intimidate the person you have already decided is suspicious.

Balog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #197 on: April 28, 2010, 02:40:36 PM »
Normal life doesn't involve approaching and harassing people, then trying to pass it off as "protecting the children."

It'd be the assumption that a stranger talking to you is harassing and some type of escalation that would be what I'm referring to here.

Taking pictures in a public place is not approaching a stranger out of the blue in a threatening manner.

Yes, it is threatening when you've already stated your intent is to intimidate the person you have already decided is suspicious.

Again, no one is advocating that. I need to buy stock in the company that makes strawmen, this thread must be putting their profit margin through the roof.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

mellestad

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #198 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:50 PM »
I think the horse is dead guys.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #199 on: April 28, 2010, 03:00:44 PM »
one of the things i loathe about our society is things like this. as an example i few years back we were driving down 234 in mannassas   saw a kid 8 maybe 10 crying walking down the road carrying a beagle that had been hit.  we wanted to stop help him out give him a ride. see if the dog was dead or needed to see a vet. in todays world we called the cops to help him for fear folks might freak if we offered him a ride.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I