Author Topic: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.  (Read 10355 times)

AJ Dual

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My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« on: April 26, 2010, 03:51:24 PM »
Last weekend I finished the shoulder holster/PDW rig for my Kel-Tec Sub9 carbine. Blue Force Gear used to make one, but they discontinued it several years ago. So the only option is to now make your own. I wound up mating it to a spare Galati 1911 shoulder holster rig that was in my Grandfather's gun-things when he died back in 2003. That saved me a lot of time trying to mess with the webbing or making my own, etc.

I just need to source a dual-pouch 30 round 9mm subgun mag holder for the left side, and figure out my best option for a belt tie-down to keep it from swinging.  This was the first time I'd ever worked with Kydex and was impressed with how easy it was.

My only tools were a paint stripping heat gun, and those $2 brown cotton jersey material garden/work gloves so I could handle the hot Kydex and push it where I wanted it, and hold it down while it cooled.

The Kydex sheet and sacrificial cardboard for layout.



The rough template. I eyeballed everything, no measurements were used.



Then I cut it out.



Traced with a white crayon, cut the Kydex with a jigsaw. Kydex "pepper" is everywhere and probably visible in each subsequent picture thereafter.



The holster ready for forming.



How the bottom of the holster grabs and supports the folded Sub9 (An earlier all metal sights and receiver model of the Sub2000) at the breech block and receiver face.



The bends without the Sub9 in the way. The one on the left provides the downward retention to the pistol grip. It's all very secure, I grabbed the Kydex only in several directions, even upside-down from how it will be worn, and shook vigorously, and the Sub9 will not fall out.



Final sanding, where I put a radius on all the sharp corners. You can also see the "C" shaped piece which grabs the stock tube to provide lateral stability higher up.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 03:56:48 PM by AJ Dual »
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bedlamite

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 05:31:49 PM »
Make one for your Draco yet?
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 06:00:10 PM »
good job, how does it look while wearing it? is it for concealment?
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AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 08:19:14 PM »
Make one for your Draco yet?

The Draco is getting SBR'ed with an ACE folding stock when time/funds permit.

good job, how does it look while wearing it? is it for concealment?

I need to find a moment when Mrs. Dual is not busy rolling her eyes to take a few photos of me wearing it.  =D  I guess the ostensible reason is concealment. A vest, light spring jacket, or windbreaker is more than sufficient to conceal it very well. To be honest, I built the thing for the same reason a dog licks it's butt, because I could.  =)

I guess the scenario where it would "need" to be used, would be whenever things are too dangerous for a handgun, but does not warrant open carry of a full rifle. Maybe a situation like the L.A. Riots, and you had to be about your business despite the local conditions. A situation I don't find too likely.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 08:27:34 PM by AJ Dual »
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bedlamite

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 08:27:32 PM »
The Draco is getting SBR'ed with an ACE folding stock when time/funds permit.


Yeah, so? That still doesn't answer the question.   =D
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AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 08:31:29 PM »
No, I've already got it set up with a single-point sling which is surprisingly accurate when used extended with reverse sling pressure. Short term will be to set it up with a rail an a red-dot optic, then form a trust and SBR it with a folding stock next year or so.

Even with Romanian/Hungarian 20 round "tanker" magazines, the AK is just too bulky to make a "holster" for it.

Something more like a tennis racket bag would do.  =D
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 08:50:44 PM »
How do you draw from it, does the kydex bend out of the way?

Which arm is it under?
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AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 10:22:00 PM »
It goes under the strong side arm. In my case the right.

The butt stock and the muzzle are both up against the armpit. You thumb the pistol grip retainer out of the way with the right hand as you grab the pistol grip. You start bending the barrel down with the left hand as you draw, which unfolds the KelTec Sub9 and it snaps shut into place as you shoulder the carbine.

It's very similar in concept if you've ever seen or read about the HK MP5k PDW and the shoulder rig for that. I'll have to post a video of how it works along with the photos of it being worn.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 10:33:55 PM »
Since you've done all the hard work...  =D

Wouldn't it be easier to mold from the "back" side a bit of a curl around the forearm near the muzzle for tension and then have a thumb snap on the front down by the pistol grip holding the receiver closed against the forearm?  The base of it would be simply cupped as it is.

I'm thinking it would look like one of those skeletonized Old West shoulder rigs.  Grab the pistol grip, pop the snap and pull straight forward.  The gun will start to open by itself due to the tension on the barrel. By the time it clears the kydex it will be mostly unfolded and ready to snap into place.

http://www.frontieramericanaoffargo.com/online-gallery.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=77&category_id=10 
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 10:44:02 PM »
I'm having trouble visualizing that.  ???

If the barrel gets unfolded by drawing it from the holster because it's coming out last, that would be a lot slower to be in position, shouldered, and on-target.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 10:50:36 PM »
I'm having trouble visualizing that.  ???

If the barrel gets unfolded by drawing it from the holster because it's coming out last, that would be a lot slower to be in position, shouldered, and on-target.

Oh, I misread, you are right handed and this is under your right arm.  i'm thinking butt forward under the left arm like a standard shoulder holster.

Just pull the grip and bring the gun out and across to your right shoulder, the barrel will be following and you can grab it with your left hand to lock it in place as it crosses your body.  You'd just be starting with mechanical advantage.  You wouldn't need much pressure on it.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 10:58:54 PM »
Here's a visual of how it works.



Under a jacket. I actually need to re-adjust the holster, tighten it up into the armpit more. I can actually get it 4-6" higher. Also, once I have the dual 30-round pouches on the left side, (photo's right) it'll balance the weight properly.



Without the jacket.



Side view. You can see how much slack I can actually take out of the straps to tuck it in tighter, and it will hang better once I figure out the belt tie-down.



Unholstering. Pulling down the barrel with the supporting left hand levers it out of the bottom of the holster. The right firing hand pulls off the thumb break from the pistol grip. The stock tube pulls loose from the "C" bend that grips it.



The Sub9 unholstered and ready.

Honestly, I think it's all unresolved angst that I'll probably never own a Magpul FMG, because they won't even produce it. And may not make a semi-auto version so it's only an NFA SBR.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 11:05:07 PM »
Okay, that makes sense.  I like it.
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 11:27:13 PM »
Here is an item that might interest you. A shoulder rig system for an MP5, comes with a 3-mag pouch.

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 11:32:47 PM »

Looks beautiful, man.  Great work.    =D
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AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 01:02:21 AM »
Here is an item that might interest you. A shoulder rig system for an MP5, comes with a 3-mag pouch.

That's kind of the inspiration for the concept. Since the 90's there are ones that work with an MP5k PDW with the Choate stock which automatically extends the stock as you draw, and also works as a single-point harness allowing the shooter to drop the carbine/SMG for hands-free.

Once I have the mag pouch, and the tie-down situation to my satisfaction, working in a single point bungee type sling that's quick detachable will be the final step.

Also, I'd like to see if I could find a gunsmith who could add a bolt-release. (without it looking or being make-shift) Besides the metal receiver and sights, the one huge advantage the Sub9 has over the later Sub2000 is that it has a last-shot BHO. The Sub2000 just has a notch as a manual BHO. However with either carbine, you still have to stick your hand into your armpit to rack the bolt to release it. I'd like it to be just a thumb lever so it's ready to fire almost instantly after unfolding and locking.

Looks beautiful, man.  Great work.    =D

Thanks!
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 01:13:36 AM »
The last shot BHO is a bug, not a feature! Just ask HK.  :P

Nice rig, BTW. How's the weight?

AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 08:44:14 AM »
I'm guessing it weighs just a smidge over 5 lbs. loaded. So it's not light by any means, but it's not unwieldy, and will be even better with a pair of 30 round magazines on the other side balancing it out.
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PTK

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 09:00:39 AM »
Good looking rig, I've made similar for my 870 SBS to hold it under a coat. What you've made reminds me greatly of a custom MP5k-PDW rig that I saw a couple years ago, only his made the stock snap open as it was drawn out.

The only question I have is, where did you purchase the Kydex?
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 10:49:48 AM »
I'm new to my Sub2K, but how do you manage the chambering of the first round?  I generally hold it by the PG out at arms length, and give the charging knob a yank.  Kinda lame, actually, for an "emergency response" bit of kit.
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AJ Dual

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2010, 10:59:15 AM »
The only question I have is, where did you purchase the Kydex?

Knifekits.com They sell it in 12x12" squares, but when you order quantity 2, it comes as a 12x24" sheet which was long enough for my project, with plenty left over for various do-dads I might want to make.

I used the .08 material, not knowing how rigid it would need to be to support the weight. It seems perfect. http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=41_54_136&products_id=272

I'm new to my Sub2K, but how do you manage the chambering of the first round?  I generally hold it by the PG out at arms length, and give the charging knob a yank.  Kinda lame, actually, for an "emergency response" bit of kit.

With the Sub9 it's a bit easier. The bolt hold open is automatic, like it is on an AR-15 or a semiautomatic pistol. There is no manual bolt hold open notch in the stock tube like there is on the Sub2k. With a removed magazine, or a loaded one, all you have to do is jerk the bolt back a fraction of an inch and let it go. That's a much easier manipulation. So all I'd do is carry the Sub9 with the bolt open, locked back, loaded magazine with a round ready to be stripped off as soon as I released the bolt.

Although like I posted a bit earlier above, I'd REALLY like to get my Sub9 modified to have a bolt release lever I could just thumb with the shooting hand like the slide-release of a semiautomatic pistol, or an AR-15. Then it would be even faster.

Although ultimately this is a "just because" project, I don't expect to ever actually rely on this "system". If things were that bad, I'd probably be using my AR-15, one of my AK's of various stripe, my FAL, my Mossberg 590A1 etc. IMO it's a very narrow set of circumstances where things are too dangerous for a handgun, but you can't openly carry a rifle.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 11:08:28 AM by AJ Dual »
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Hutch

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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 11:30:19 AM »
I don't know how I overlooked the fact that you have a different model than I do.  I guess reading for comprehension is eroding rapidly...

Thanks, anyway.  Neat project, tho'.
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2010, 11:21:49 AM »
Very cool little project AJ, and nice work. I've often wondered if one could comfortably conceal a slim non-SBR rifle effectively under a heavy coat. 
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2010, 11:42:59 PM »
Need to make something similar for a PLR-16. I want one of those, Nat. Forest rules allow me to carry a handgun year-round with CCW permit, so it might as well be substantial. I figure the G17 with G18 mag will make a good BUG.  :angel:
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Re: My little project. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. would be proud.
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2010, 12:04:13 AM »
AJ Dual,

Thanks for telling me where you sourced the Kydex. Seems dang expensive there compared to my previous source, but I was buying HUGE amounts at a time.
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