Ariz. Referendum Drives Targeting New Law Dropped

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Try walking away when a LEO is questioning you and see how far you get before something you won't like happens.  Maybe you start watching the show "Cops" and you will get an idea of what can, and may, happen if you disobey a police command.

Um, no.

If the cop is merely questioning you, you're free to STFU or walk away at any time.  

If the cop has formally detained you, you can't walk away.  You can still STFU, and unless the cop can come up with something in a reasonable amount of time he has to let you go.

[Desertdog]

If you really care what the law says, and not just spouting the anti law line, go here:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20100430/NEWS13/100430024/1321/NEWS/Text-of-Arizona-immigration-law

[sanglant]

Um, no.

If the cop is merely questioning you, you're free to STFU or walk away at any time.  

If the cop has formally detained you, you can't walk away.  You can still STFU, and unless the cop can come up with something in a reasonable amount of time he has to let you go.

and when your pulled over between there and home with no DL, POI, or CCW? while the cop has your papers your detained. unless you trust him/her to bring them to you?

[Balog]

I think you're formally detained if the cop takes your paperwork. Ianal etc

[freakazoid]

You might try, you know, reading the actual law. It's like 14 pages.

If Desertdogs link is correct then there really isn't anything in it. It basically says that they can't ignore federal law and if they have probably cause for believing that the person has committed an offense that makes them eligible for removal from the US then they can arrest them. Everything else is about employment and a little bit at the end about impounding the vehicle. So, you know, it doesn't actually answer my questions so like if you could answer them then like it would be awesome.

This law has anything to do with illegal stops how?

Brought it up to show how they can get around needing to have them already stopped for something else.
Oh, and the nick is freakazoid, not freak. Try typing the whole thing out next time ok. I don't take kindly to your treatment.

Read the law.  Accoring to what I read of the law, if the person has a legal state drivers liscense, that is all they need as proof that they are here legally.

Didn't California, or some other state, say that they would issue licenses to illegals a while back?

[taurusowner]

and when your pulled over between there and home with no DL, POI, or CCW? while the cop has your papers your detained. undecided unless you trust him/her to bring them to you?

If you're pulled over driving with no DL, you're going to jail.  No ops on person is a misdemeanor (at least it is in MI, not sure about AZ)

[Balog]

Fussy lil thing aren't ya?

You're right, all the law does is restate fed law. Why this is causing the massive twisting of panties is beyond me.

As for your example...

You're basically saying "If cops break the law, this would give them the right to hassle people legally!" which makes no sense. If cops want to hassle you and are willing to break the law to do so, how is this going to have any effect either way?

[red headed stranger]

If you're pulled over driving with no DL, you're going to jail.  No ops on person is a misdemeanor (at least it is in MI, not sure about AZ)

In AZ, if you do not have a valid drivers license, it is a class 1 misdemeanor and penalties can include the vehicle being impounded, 48 hours in jail and a court imposed fine of $300 or more. 

If you merely left your license at home, you can tell the officer your name and SSN, and they can look you up.

[red headed stranger]

Didn't California, or some other state, say that they would issue licenses to illegals a while back?

The ID from any state that does not require legal residency for a DL will not be considered proof of citizenship.  It is written in the law. 

However, it has been suggested that in practice, officers will accept valid DLs as sufficient proof.  Once this law goes into effect, they anticipate plenty of work going into arresting those who have no DLs.   

[Angel Eyes]

You're right, all the law does is restate fed law. Why this is causing the massive twisting of panties is beyond me.

My guess: they're worried that the Arizona law will actually be enforced.

[Perd Hapley]

It seems like some commentators imagine all the Hispanics in Arizona being rounded up.  I've never been to Arizona, but I can only imagine that all the Hispanics in Arizona is a pretty BIG number, and any cops invoking the new law every time they see a "Mex," will be some very busy cops indeed.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

It seems like some commentators imagine all the Hispanics in Arizona being rounded up.  I've never been to Arizona, but I can only imagine that all the Hispanics in Arizona is a pretty BIG number, and any cops invoking the new law every time they see a "Mex," will be some very busy cops indeed.

And arresting each other pretty often, too. 

[Desertdog]

Attorney General Eric Holder, who claims he is considering a Civil Rights lawsuit, had not taken time to read the AZ immigration law, as of 4/13/2010.  But he is ready to to fight it.

[red headed stranger]

It seems like some commentators imagine all the Hispanics in Arizona being rounded up.  I've never been to Arizona, but I can only imagine that all the Hispanics in Arizona is a pretty BIG number, and any cops invoking the new law every time they see a "Mex," will be some very busy cops indeed.

Yep.  The LEGAL hispanic population makes up about 30% of AZ's total population. That is why racial profiling wouldn't even be a useful practice here. 

And arresting each other pretty often, too. 

QFT.  There are a whole lot of MCSO deputies that are Hispanic.  Not to mention BP . . .

Attorney General Eric Holder, who claims he is considering a Civil Rights lawsuit, had not taken time to read the AZ immigration law, as of 4/13/2010.  But he is ready to to fight it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/13/holder-hasnt-read-ariz-law-he-criticized/

Interesting quotes from him.  He knows that he can't do anything about a law that simply mirrors US code, so all he can do is just hem and haw. 

[Desertdog]

From the http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/13/holder-hasnt-read-ariz-law-he-criticized/  story.

But critics said giving police the power to stop those they suspect are in the country illegally is bound to lead to profiling.

They are not allowed to "stop those they suspect are in the country illegally," but they ask for their papers if they stop them for some other reason.

Personally I think they should check anybody carrying a foreign flag at a demonstration for their legal status.

[freakazoid]

Fussy lil thing aren't ya?

And you accuse me of being snarky, 

You're right, all the law does is restate fed law.

So then what are the answers to my questions?

You're basically saying "If cops break the law, this would give them the right to hassle people legally!" which makes no sense. If cops want to hassle you and are willing to break the law to do so, how is this going to have any effect either way?

Any effect on what?

[Balog]

If a cop A wants to hassle you and B is willing to break the law to do so, then this new law will change nothing. The cops are already breaking the law to start, right? So your argument is "This law makes it legal to harrass people, if a cop first breaks a whole bunch of other laws."

As for your questions, they are non-sensical and display an utter lack of understanding of both the new law and current police procedures. This new law changes nothing about the manner in which police stops are conducted. It merely allows police to do something about a class of crime they have previously had to ignore.

[RocketMan]

I am going to Phoenix on business this coming Monday.  I'll be there for eleven days, so I should be able to see first hand if the world is coming to an end because of this law.
Oh, wait, the law doesn't go into effect until July.  I suppose as long as I can avoid seeing my ex-inlaws everything will work out and I'll have a good trip.

[Scout26]

Personally I think they should check anybody carrying a foreign flag at a demonstration for their legal status.

Can we enforce AZ Law in Chicago on St. Patricks Day ?? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P3BtRwGuo&feature=related

[taurusowner]

Can we enforce AZ Law in Chicago on St. Patricks Day ?? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P3BtRwGuo&feature=related

If we start to get the impression that there is large amount of illegal Irish immigrants, than by all means start checking IDs.

[KD5NRH]

If we start to get the impression that there is large amount of illegal Irish immigrants, than by all means start checking IDs.

If anyone swims across the border from Ireland, I ain't messin' with him.

[MicroBalrog]

Personally I think they should check anybody carrying a foreign flag at a demonstration for their legal status.

[Fly320s]

Brought it up to show how they can get around needing to have them already stopped for something else.

The police can't legally get around having to stop a person for some legitimate reason before starting the investigation into residence status.

In the thread concerning the burned-out tag light, the driver was stopped legally, at least according to the cop. But if the light was working and the cop just used that excuse to pull over the driver, then the cop is in violation of the law and everything that happens after that will be inadmissable in court. You know this already, I'd bet.

Will Arizona's new law stop police corruption/crime/illegal stops?  No, of course not. All it does is allow the police to investigate a person's US residence status once a "lawful" stop has been made. I saw " lawful" because only the courts can decide after-the-fact if the stop was lawful.

Will there be cops unlawfully stopping/detaining "brown people" just to check their immigration status?  Yes, of course.  Do we currently have cops that unlawfully stop people to check for seatbelt useage, drunk driving, insurance, drugs, etc?  Yes, of course.

Will the new AZ law create thousands of rogue cops who just want to detain/harass/deport "those brown people?"  I don't think so.

[taurusowner]

Will the new AZ law create thousands of rogue cops who just want to detain/harass/deport "those brown people?"  I don't think so.

That's the real crux of the issue.  The Left thinks it will.  I agree that I will not.