Author Topic: DOJ Civil Rights Division Insanity Will Lead to More Prisoners Contracting AIDS  (Read 28624 times)

vaskidmark

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How prevalent is male rape in the prison system?

Not anywhere near as frequently as the ZOMG-screamers would try to make you believe.  Nor is consensual sex that prevalent.  The biggest problem, if you will allow the use of that term, is the unavailability of condoms, although some inmates are quite adept at making do with other sources of either latex, nitrile, or other plastic films.

As for amending the law so as to deal with the vagarities of prison administration?  Why don't we propose that to our law,akers and see just hom much interest there is amongst them? [/sarcasm]

Just about everyone knows just about everything about all the other inmates, the staff, the families of both, including the daily toileting habits of both groups, within a few months of arrival at a prison.  It's possible, but difficult, for staff to keep their private lives private mainly because they have that big gaping orifice between their nose and chin and cannot/will not control what comes out of it.  As well, they spew information that is supposed to not even be available to them for everyone and anyone to hear and repeat.

But the freaking law is the law and must be obeyed.  Why, that's one of life's little lessons that currently seems to be on the agenda to teach inmates.  So the corrections systems struggle with ways to comply with even those laws that make the job as utterly difficult as possible if not outright impossible.  And as long as there are no riots and the numbers of staff that get killed/hurt are kept "reasonable" (whatever that actual number may be - but obviously we have not yet exceeded it), few who are not directly involved with either operating prisons of those incarcerated within the prisons seem to care enough to make things easier.

One of my objectives in documenting the continuing violations of HIPAA regulations was to provide sufficient incentive to have the regulations changed.  If the system could not manage to operate within the existing regulations there must be a reason, and perhaps that reason was the regulations were essentially such that nobody could comply with them.  Rather than continue to expose the State to losses from lawsuits, perhaps spend a mere fraction of that amount lobbying to get the rules changed?  Where is the head-banging-against-the-stone-wall smiley when you need it?

As for "You lose some things when you commit a crime bad enough to be thrown in prison.  Perhaps that medical privacy should be lost or modified for the time period they are in prison" -well, there's that slippery slope thing cropping up again.  I am probably the one person on earth that is the least in favor of softness for inmates, but then again I am possibly the most ardent for ensuring that society does not once again decide that a class of untermenchen exists who are not deserving of fully equal protection under the law.  I once was known for saying "Inmates deserve to receive everything they are entitled to under the Constitution - and not one thing more!"  I still fear the day when that which is prohibited because it is "cruel and unsusal" becomes permitted because it is now "cruel and usual".

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Jamisjockey

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How prevalent is male rape in the prison system?

I'd certainly suppose its much more common inside prision than outside prision.
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roo_ster

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How prevalent is male rape in the prison system?

Human Rights watch will claim 140,000 per year.  I'd give them a histrionic quotient of 2 and knock it in half.

OTOH, studies done by fed & state gov'ts say between 9%-23% of male inmates get raped.

There is a bill before Congress concerning standards to prevent prison rape that Holder has asked them to delay:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/243151/prison-rape-standards-still-waiting-approval-eli-lehrer

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roo_ster

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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How prevalent is male rape in the prison system?
I know a man who caught HIV due to prison rape.  So it's common enough to be a problem.

Ned Hamford

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Besides, the risk of actually getting HIV by sexual contact is below 1% per contact. Assuming the other party is a carrier.

Uhhh.... I think prison rape would tend to be a bit... rougher and less planned, than the considered 'encounter.'

I seriously doubt that 1% figure for the discussed situation.  Just from my limited exposure I know some half dozen one night in prison, rape, HIV occurrences.

I'd advice folks against going to jail in generally, specially in NYC.
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tyme

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It's been stated in this thread that over a million people have HIV and not know it.

Are you referring to my stats?  CDC estimates slightly over 1 million infected in the U.S., with an estimated 20% unaware (link to the data which was in my first post in this thread).  Globally, I'm sure far more than 1 million people are unknowingly HIV+.  Global incidence of HIV is like 35-40mil, with over 10mil on the African continent, and millions more in Asia.  Certainly well more than 1mil are undiagnosed in Africa and Asia alone.  http://globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=1

Quote
It's entirely possible for one of these people to get married, and infect their entirely-monogamous wife and children.

Besides, the risk of actually getting HIV by sexual contact is below 1% per contact. Assuming the other party is a carrier.

AIDS isn't a new Black Plague. There's no need to be painting white crosses.

Points 1 and 2 are at odds with each other.  Per-contact seroconversion is low.  Overall seroconversion is high unless the couple always use barrier protection methods and do not engage in riskier sex, which ties in with...

Point 2 is dangerously simplified.  Risk per contact is wildly dependent on all sorts of factors, from viral load to whether condoms are used to the type of sex to whether any other STDs are present (which might create ulcers which ease the spread of HIV, for instance).

Point 3 is highly subjective.  I am more concerned about HIV than the Black Plague precisely because HIV infection is not obvious and because its latent period is much longer.  If a Black Plague outbreak were detected, enormous efforts would be placed on containment and identification of all infected, and general proactive measures for the rest of the public to reduce transmission if the dragnet misses anyone.  Certainly you can see the dramatic difference between a case like that and the current (lack of) efforts to deal with HIV transmission?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 12:47:28 PM by tyme »
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sanglant

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don't forget teeth problems causing bleeding etc. .

Firethorn

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Heterosexuals have modified their behavior to a greater extent and the new infection rate is much less.

By my understanding, homosexuals have done it even more; but they're starting substantially 'behind the curve', so to speak.

Not to distract from the point too much, but wouldn't gay marriage, with the whole 'exclusivity' clause help?

If you have an STD, unknowingly and knowingly, then pass it on to someone, should it be treated the same as say... a negligent discharge and hitting someone? Or something along those lines?

Unknowingly, I'd require proof of negligence; that a reasonable person would have suspected and gotten tested.

Knowingly?  With HIV I'd go for attempted murder, at the least.  Heck, make a NEW law regarding it.  Assault with a deadly weapon?

The difference between and STD and other communicable diseases is that one is involuntarily contracted, one is generally not. Preventing people with drug resistant forms of TB from wandering around infecting everyone you pass is different than people who engage in stupid and risky behaviour (unprotected sex, sharing needles etc) taking the consequences of their actions.

Uh, I don't think many people 'voluntarily' contracted HIV.  You're also coming close to the line of treating HIV and STDs as punishment, not a disease.  After all, you can avoid TB by wearing a breathing system(masks are better worn by the TB patient to prevent spread then worn by non-infected to prevent infection).  There are people out there who became infected because their spouse was the one who engaged in 'risky behavior', whether drug use or an affair, then spread it.

Are you referring to my stats?  CDC estimates slightly over 1 million infected in the U.S., with an estimated 20% unaware (link to the data which was in my first post in this thread).  Globally, I'm sure far more than 1 million people are unknowingly HIV+.  Global incidence of HIV is like 35-40mil, with over 10mil on the African continent, and millions more in Asia.  Certainly well more than 1mil are undiagnosed in Africa and Asia alone.  http://globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=1

Interesting.

So we're looking at a .3% infection rate, around 200k unaware(.06%), out of a country of ~300M.

Just as an exercise:  Let's say we get a cheap test that has a 1% false negative and false positive rate.  We test all 300M people.
We'd be able to inform 198k of the estimated 200k people that they have HIV.
We'd have to retest, using better, more expensive methods, 3M people who we get a false positive on.

Still, assuming that each infected person we catch prevents somebody else getting infected, that's 198k lives 'saved' because HIV/AIDS is still considered lethal, right?

If the test costs $10ea, that's $3B for primary testing, another $302M on retesting($100/pop).  We'll consider additional money on treating those ~200K people medically beneficial.

Though now that I looked into the costs, it seems my figures are a bit off:
Making HIV Testing Cost-Effective.

$7 for a 'rapid test'
$40 for confirmatory
$37,100 estimated per 'quality-adjusted life-year' gained via successful treatment of those found via a 100% testing of all adults.

Per their studies; the military's tendency to test annually is excessive; every 3 years is considered just as good.

They list .2% as the break even point for mass adult testing vs other strategies.  Given that they're estimating the US's infection rate at .3%, it seems a mass screening of the USA would be a net positive affair.



tyme

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Quote from: Firethorn
[cost analysis, pegging one very rough estimate at $3B]

We spent more than that each year for FY2007-09 in HIV-related foreign aid.  Even if domestic testing were a net loss proposition on the order of a few hundred million to a few billion dollars, wouldn't it be a good idea to take care of the domestic situation first?
[third bullet point at http://www.usaid.gov/policy/budget/cbj2009/ : $3.2B 2007, $4.6B 2008, $4.7B 2009 ]

As the article you linked mentions, testing doesn't need to be annual; even a one-time aggressive nationwide testing program -- combined with ongoing testing of new immigrants, as well as giving doctors a little bit of leeway in getting federal funds to pay for testing anyone they think is particularly high risk -- would probably keep the pool of undiagnosed HIV infection near zero.  Gradual unexplained increases in the HIV detection rate for higher-risk individuals could be an indicator that there is a new undiagnosed pool of HIV infection in the lower-risk population, and further measures up to and including another round of nationwide testing could be called for at some threshold.
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MechAg94

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By my understanding, homosexuals have done it even more; but they're starting substantially 'behind the curve', so to speak.

Not to distract from the point too much, but wouldn't gay marriage, with the whole 'exclusivity' clause help?

I think it was a year or two ago the last time I heard stats.  It was said that "risky sex" was still common in that community (certainly not everyone) and that was one of the major factors stated.  Homosexuals aren't alone in that certainly, but it was said the % of the community was higher and the risk of infection by that type of contact was higher.  If things have changed for the better, that certainly a good thing.

I don't know if marriage would help or not.  I figure it someone isn't monogamous before marriage, they are less likely to be that way after.  I guess there is also the question:  do they want marriage for the exclusivity factor or for the "I'm normal now just like mom and dad" factor?  
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roo_ster

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I don't know if marriage would help or not.  I figure it someone isn't monogamous before marriage, they are less likely to be that way after.  I guess there is also the question:  do they want marriage for the exclusivity factor or for the "I'm normal now just like mom and dad" factor?  

I suspect the latter, as roughly half of homosexual "marriages" are explicitly "open" and eliminate any positive effects one might gain from monogamy, to include lesser chances of contracting venereal diseases.
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roo_ster

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MillCreek

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I resurrect this thread to bring you this link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2267285/?gt1=38001

It argues that prisons should have tattoo parlors as a public health measure.  Of note are the studies pointing out that Hep C infection is 10-20 times higher in prison, and if sanitary tattooing was available, this could reduce the rate of infection.
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kgbsquirrel

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I resurrect this thread to bring you this link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2267285/?gt1=38001

It argues that prisons should have tattoo parlors as a public health measure.  Of note are the studies pointing out that Hep C infection is 10-20 times higher in prison, and if sanitary tattooing was available, this could reduce the rate of infection.

It's interesting, and the cost effectiveness of preventing future cases of Hep/HIV and their associated medical costs do seem worth it, but I have to ask, why should someone who broke the law get to enjoy a recreational activity on my dime? On the flip side, I've no qualms about proper and sanitary tattooing facilities being made available if the inmates themselves paid for it/built it.

MicroBalrog

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Quote
but I have to ask, why should someone who broke the law get to enjoy a recreational activity on my dime?

 Do you feel the same about prison libraries?
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Perd Hapley

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Do you feel the same about prison libraries?

I don't.  I want the prisoners to read books; I don't really care if they get tattoos.
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MicroBalrog

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I don't.  I want the prisoners to read books; I don't really care if they get tattoos.

It seems to me the cost reduction in prisoners not contracting serious diseases is a good enough reason to care.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Perd Hapley

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Eh, if you put it that way, maybe.  Then again, we may wish to look into mandatory laser removal of all tattoos, or at least those not cataloged when the inmate is processed in. It would disincentive prison tats, would prevent tax money being spent on tattoos (to which some tax-payers have religious objections, anyway) and probably better suit the inmates for life outside the joint. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 11:51:23 PM by Fistful »
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MicroBalrog

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If we stopped funding everything to which some taxpayer has a religious objection, the state couldn't exist.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Perd Hapley

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If we stopped funding everything to which some taxpayer has a religious objection, the state couldn't exist.

Is that all you got out of my post?   ;/  =)
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>If we stopped funding everything to which some taxpayer has a religious objection, the state couldn't exist.<

And the cons to this argument are?


Pardon the pun: it was unintentional...
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MechAg94

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By "tattoo parlors", I assume you mean giving the inmates the means to use properly sterilized equipment and not hiring a professional to do the tattoos.  The only additional positive I can think of is at least one prisoner getting practice for a profession as a tattooist. 
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roo_ster

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I'd bet dollars to Trojans that more prisoners get Hep C via homosexual activity than they do via prison tattoos.

This is more akin to midnight basketball and cable TV for cons than it is akin to disease prevention.
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roo_ster

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seeker_two

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Re: DOJ Civil Rights Division Insanity Will Lead to More Prisoners Contracting A
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2010, 03:12:16 PM »
Maybe if the new policy is to amputate any area with new ink, the problem might solve itself...
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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I don't.  I want the prisoners to read books; I don't really care if they get tattoos.
This.

I don't mind spending money on inmates in ways that better rehabilitates them.  I do mind spending money for inmates to receive useless shiny baubles. 

If a given con wants professional tats, that's fine with me.  He can pay for 'em himself, after he's out.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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its actually kinda problematic to be a prolific reader in jail. though its a great way to lose weight
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I