Guns of 'The Expendables' - spoiler alert

[vaskidmark]

"The Guns of The Expendables  at http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1645843/20100816/story.jhtml

SPOILER ALERT.  Also a combined Class II Beverage Alert/Class III Throwable Object/Spontaneous Profanity Alert.

To give you a tease of what to expect:

Said Johnson: "It [shotgun round] has fins and it explodes before it hits the target. ... It's like a little missile, a little ground-to-air missile. ... The way we did it [in 'The Expendables'] was, basically, [we built it] to take down buildings, and it does. In real life, this shotgun would do pretty close to what you see on the screen."

Dear sweet bouncing Baby Geebus, a shotgun round that could really, truely, honestly "pretty much" take down buildings - without using slugs and chipping away at the concrete and steel girders for weeks at a time.

And the Kimber Gold Combat IIs:

"A gun will fire as quick as you let the gun work, because it's a gas-activated gun — meaning the gas in the chamber causes the recoil — which causes everything to work in the gun and the next shell coming up. So as fast as you could possibly pull the trigger is how fast that gun will."

Well, yeah, I guess technically that's right, but when discusing gas-operated guns don't we usually mean those with piston systems?

Delve deeper at your own risk.  Beware of the bends when coming up for air.  Watch that you don't strain too hard.

stay safe.

[Cromlech]

The Shotgun grenade round in Question is the one featured alongside the AA-12 on Future Weapons.

AA-12 Shotgun On Future Weapons

[AJ Dual]

The Shotgun grenade round in Question is the one featured alongside the AA-12 on Future Weapons.

AA-12 Shotgun On Future Weapons

Yep the Frag-12. I remember reading about it in Defense Review. An AA-12, or even a Saiga with a drum magazine full of those would be nasty indeed. One would not take down a building, but collapsing a cinder-block wall... probably.

[Nick1911]

Oh, I like that.

[vaskidmark]

Oh, I like that.

Not me.  AP. HE or FRAG are all nice, but none of them "explodes before it hits the target".

Now a proximity-fused 12-guage HE or FRAG round - that would be truely AWESOME.

stay safe.

[mtnbkr]

proximity-fused 12-gauge for bird hunting would be...fun. :D

Chris

[41magsnub]

proximity-fused 12-gauge for bird hunting would be...fun. :D

Chris

I have visions of a 12ga replica of a Bofors with those rounds for pass shooting geese.

[Cromlech]

I suspect there are people working on airburst 12ga rounds, though just how effective they are I do not know. 

[MechAg94]

What sort of radar return does a goose give off? 

[41magsnub]

What sort of radar return does a goose give off? 

As I understand it a pretty good one, radars routinely pick up flocks of birds.

[AJ Dual]

What sort of radar return does a goose give off? 

Meh.. Just use LIDAR instead.

Actually, just REALLY crank up the juice on the LIDAR and cook them directly. 

I'm sure the distance/proximity fusing research being done by ATK for the original OICW contract, and the later XM-25 stand-alone launcher could be applied to this. Although you'd need a conductive path through the shotshell to program the spin fuse/counter.

And all the different velocities, barrel lengths, and rifled/non rifled shotgun bores would make programming for the FRAG-12 a nightmare, so some kind of standard barrel or shotgun would need to be devised to be mated with the rangefinder/computer.

[HankB]

I suspect there are people working on airburst 12ga rounds, though just how effective they are I do not know. 

Several decades ago there were a couple of guys putting together a hunting round called, IIRC,  "Duck Reach" . . .

Shot was contained in a plastic cup that had a small bursting charge inside - upon firing, a fuze provided a short delay so that the shot wouldn't be released from the cup until the whole thing was well downrange - it traveled like a slug until the shot was released. It was being called an "80 yard duck load."

SO . . . up the charge, subsitute something more lethal than birdshot for shrapnel, and you've got something to take out bad guys instead of ducks.

(I have my doubts about the cost/benefit ratio of high-tech explosive shotgun rounds with sophisticated fuzes . . . )

[Cromlech]

Looking at the XM29 OICW progam on Wikipedia, it seems they didn't think the 20mm was effective enough and so moved to 25mm. A 12ga shell is about 18.5mm in diameter, so I guess it would be okay for use against smaller than human animals like the aforementioned ducks. 

[AJ Dual]

Just go with metastable pentavalent nitrogen. Although over a gram, minor amounts of EMP might be a concern.

[Cromlech]

I have no idea what that is, so I am going to sit here an nod my head. 

 

[RevDisk]

Just go with metastable pentavalent nitrogen. Although over a gram, minor amounts of EMP might be a concern.

Polymeric nitrogen is expensive.  RDX is not.   

Has anyone manufactured more than a few grams?   

[Jamisjockey]

As I understand it a pretty good one, radars routinely pick up flocks of birds.

Yep.  Fishermen use boat radar to routinely find flocks of bird, which indicates baitfish underneath.

[seeker_two]

proximity-fused 12-gauge for bird hunting would be...fun. :D

Forget the birds....think of the SQUIRRELS...