Author Topic: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret  (Read 21870 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2010, 02:04:21 AM »
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I wasn't talking about Judaism, where foods are forbidden because of a "hang-up" about that animal being unclean. I was talking about religions like Jainism, where killing animals is forbidden and not eating animals is just something that naturally follows, much as a proscription on cannibalism naturally follows from a proscription on murder.

So what you're saying is, cannibalism is okay if you didn't murder the guy?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2010, 02:21:44 AM »
So what you're saying is, cannibalism is okay if you didn't murder the guy?

Sigh. I didn't intend to give a whole lecture on the ethics of anthropophagy. As a Christian, I don't recall the Bible giving any specific ruling against that. It would seem to follow from Christian principles that you don't eat human flesh as a matter of course. Getting any more specific would take us further off-topic.

If you're stranded in the mountains with only your dead team-mates to eat, of course, it would seem to be permissible.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2010, 02:25:34 AM »
Neither Governments nor Religions based on fear should be tolerated by the thinking man.

Terry said that.

And here I thought you were in favor of religious tolerance.   :P  Of course I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, it's just ironic how you phrased it.

Oh, and thank you for clarifying that your problem with religious teachings on sex and food stem from your unfounded theories about religion.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 02:48:08 AM by Fistful »
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2010, 02:25:52 AM »
My mistake. I thought you were trying to contribute to the discussion, rather than purposely missing the point. Carry on.

I am always amused when people like you make the mistake of amusing that they get to decide what "the point" is and who is or is not properly adhering to the rules of the conversation.  I got bored with the yuh-huh! Nuh-uh! mode of argumentation a while back.

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As for your accusations that I am an apologist for overly-controlling, patriarchal religions, I think we both know who has more emotional involvement with such.  You were raised in one patriarchal religion, and have since joined a second patriarchal religion.  I can see why you're tired of them; I would be too. I've never had much contact with such, so I don't have any motivation to defend them.

It was not an accusation, it was a statement.  Make up your mind.  Either religious apologetics is a worthy role or not.  You regularly engage in religious apologetics and I'm pretty sure that you don't think that's a bad thing.  How is that I'm oppressing you by identifying you as someone who self-identify as?

But that's ok, I don't mind if you dismiss my exceptionally broad personal, intellectual, legal, and emotional knowledge a a variety of religious systems as blind emotionality.  It doesn't really help your point much, but most of my point is that you'd be better at making effective arguments if you acknowledged some complexities and interrelationships in the world beyond those clear-cut categories you have decided to impose on the world for the sake of fitting it all in with your pre-conceptions.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2010, 02:38:51 AM »
 You regularly engage in religious apologetics and I'm pretty sure that you don't think that's a bad thing.  How is that I'm oppressing you by identifying you as someone who self-identify as?

And yet I've never defended the sort of overly-controlling religion of which you speak. You see, I think I get to decide what I support and what I oppose, even if such complexities don't fit in with your preconceptions.

I've also never claimed to be oppressed by such an accusation, so I don't know where that comes from.


I am always amused when people like you...

Oh, do tell me what I'm like.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2010, 02:56:08 AM »
I'm what you might call a free agent. Emphasis on the free.

Indeed, I was adding an additional dimension to the topic under discussion.  I'm well aware that you, and any number of yeshiva apologists of my acquaintance prefer to keep conversations focused on parameters of your choosing.  That's not how I roll.

If'n you're gonna talk about religion is a personal choice, and people are only choosing their own sexual mores, then I'm going to rather insistently point out that in many cases their own sexual mores positively require mistreating "unclean" people.  Of course this is not what YOU want to talk about.  Amazing how that works.

But it's ok, tell me more about how irrelevant my thoughts are.  I've never heard that before.   ;/

That's weak.  I didn't claim that all religion is a personal choice. That's something you imported into what I said. I also did not defend "mistreating 'unclean' people."  Again, you imported that into my comments. If I said something you disagree with, go ahead and say so. But when I point out that you misunderstood me, you should give me the courtesy of allowing me to clarify, rather than pretending to read my mind.

And if you're going to say something not connected to what others are saying, don't pretend that it is relevant, and that I'm being a big mean man for stating otherwise.

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I don't mind if you dismiss my exceptionally broad personal, intellectual, legal, and emotional knowledge a a variety of religious systems as blind emotionality.  It doesn't really help your point much, but most of my point is that you'd be better at making effective arguments if you acknowledged some complexities and interrelationships in the world beyond those clear-cut categories you have decided to impose on the world for the sake of fitting it all in with your pre-conceptions.
You have precisely zero knowledge of my own breadth of study, no matter how lofty a view you seem to take of your own. As we have seen, you don't have much idea of what I'm thinking, even when I write it down.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 03:03:43 AM by Fistful »
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Strings

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2010, 02:57:37 AM »
>much as a proscription on cannibalism naturally follows from a proscription on murder.<

Ummm... as has been pointed out, no. This is kinda like the girl my sister knew in high school, whose mother told her "kissing boys makes you pregnant." Then was shocked when she came home knocked up...

There are any number of ways cannibalism could be engaged in, without violating any proscription against harming another human being. The above line is a fallacy...

And let's stay FAR away from anything about "I believe X is a false religion". That devolves into an argument we do NOT want...


As for the argument that "all religions are used to control people": many are. Almost any area of human thought can be used in such a fashion. Your point?

Yes, religion is used, in many ways, to promote the morals of whatever group. This is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in the US where it IS fairly easy to go "This faith isn't for me, I'm outa here". And, if you boil down the basic rules of most faiths, they amount to "don't hurt folks"... which seems like a good rule of thumb.

The problem is NOT religion itself, but rather those who twist whatever faith to conform to their wants and desires. We've had any number of examples through history: should we consider Jonestown an indictment against Christianity? And that was a minor example: Islam has had centuries to be twisted by folks: no surprise that things have gotten messed up!

Not sure what the solution is, to either the larger problem (religion twisted to serve someone's wants) or the smaller (the subject of the OP)... :(
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2010, 03:09:15 AM »
>much as a proscription on cannibalism naturally follows from a proscription on murder.<

Ummm... as has been pointed out, no. This is kinda like the girl my sister knew in high school, whose mother told her "kissing boys makes you pregnant." Then was shocked when she came home knocked up...

There are any number of ways cannibalism could be engaged in, without violating any proscription against harming another human being. The above line is a fallacy...

Sigh again.  See my comment to Microbalrog above. 
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=25893.msg504914#msg504914


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And let's stay FAR away from anything about "I believe X is a false religion". That devolves into an argument we do NOT want...
Only because PC mythology causes people to insist on being offended by it, even when they are not offended by denunciations of the various secular view-points.  Adherence to one point of view necessarily means that one sees other views as false. 

I am accused of defending yeshiva, whatever that is. Stating my view of Judaism would seem to be one way of dealing with that.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 03:13:30 AM by Fistful »
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2010, 03:34:44 AM »
...especially in the US where it IS fairly easy to go "This faith isn't for me, I'm outa here".

No.  It isn't.  Really.  Perhaps from some religions.  Hardly universally.

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And, if you boil down the basic rules of most faiths, they amount to "don't hurt folks"... which seems like a good rule of thumb.

I don't know about most faiths, but I do that "don't hurt folks" begs several questions:

1) What is don't?
2) What is hurt?
3) What is folks?

One set of answers to those questions goes something like this:  "Let the Nazis kill your children, because it is better they should die than be saved in a way where will almost certainly be lost to the community." 

This is why I think I have never really understood Christianity.  I've been thinking in terms of legal interpretation since before I could talk, and so this insistence that there is a law, but that the law is simple and just boils down x doesn't really work.  The next question is always "Why x?" and what happens when x comes up against y?  Life requires choices.  Laws tell you how to respond to choices.  Laws boiled down to simple adages really don't.




Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2010, 03:39:34 AM »
Since I can't sleep anyway, I'll clear up whatever confusion I may have created on the cannibalism thing.  Yes, eating the flesh of human beings may be preferable to starvation and therefore permissible in some cases.  Strictly speaking, eating human flesh is not necessarily a sin all by itself. 

Overall though, from a Christian point of view (as in many other points of view), it is to be avoided except in the gravest extreme. Christians have traditionally viewed the body as an integral part of the human being, even if some Christians have spoken of the body as just an "earth-suit" to be discarded. Such talk is actually more akin to Gnosticism. 

The traditional Christian view is one of respect for the body. Hence those sexual mores. The Bible speaks of a physical resurrection on Judgment Day. This is one reason why burial is preferred to cremation. Not because cremation is a sin, or because God can't resurrect the burnt, but because burial treats the body as something respected and put in a safe place. Cremation treats the body as something to be destroyed, even if respectfully destroyed. Personally, I'm not offended by cremation, and I expect plenty of cremated Christians to be in heaven. I'm just speaking of the two different modes in terms of what they might say about how we view the body.

There are probably a lot of other supporting points I missed. Sorry. But the conclusion is that dead bodies are to be treated with respect. This usually would include not eating them. And not cutting them up unless we have a very good reason to, such as organ donation. And not leaving them laying on the battlefield, unless we just can't get to them. And so on.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2010, 03:42:03 AM »
No disrespect to anybody involved, but I'm not sure how this argument can evolve in a constructive fashion. See – and that's not meant to offend any poster on this forum – I don't believe the Bible was written by God. I believe the Old Testament was written by a variety of people writing seomwhere before what we know today as 1 AD, and the New Testament was written... I don't know when, but the Greek translation we know was finalized around 100-120 AD. Because I don't believe people wrote them, I approach them as I would any other document written in the era.

Fistful (as far as I can discern, and for example) believes the Bible is a single, coherent document dictated by an infallible deity. I can't come up with any conclusions based on my approach that would benefit Fistful, and I would be hard-pressed to come up with one that wouldn't offend him (and others on this board who don't share this view).

I disagree with many of the values of Christianity and Judaism, as stated in the Bible and as espoused by believers (often two different things). But I am not – and anybody who knows me will attest – the sort of vengeful theoklast that would try and forcefully attempt to disprove someone's religion by the means of offending them as much as possible.

I'm sorry, I can't seem to see that this avenue of debate is productive.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2010, 03:43:23 AM »
I don't know about most faiths, but I do that "don't hurt folks" begs several questions:

1) What is don't?
2) What is hurt?
3) What is folks?

One set of answers to those questions goes something like this:  "Let the Nazis kill your children, because it is better they should die than be saved in a way where will almost certainly be lost to the community." 

True dat.




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taurusowner

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2010, 03:57:55 AM »
I agree with Micro, not on the issues but on the idea that this cannot really ever be a true civil discussion.  The two sides cannot see eye to eye.  For those who disagree with religion, looking at the Bible, Koran, etc is equivalent to looking at a Harry Potter book: a fantastical story with no basis in fact.  And you this view anyone who takes it seriously as laughable.  By being a non believer, the act of believing is entirely foreign.  The truth of this is shown even in posts in this thread.  The idea of "because God said so" is something that various posters will not under any circumstances accept.  And because they cannot accept it, anyone who does is thought a fool.

Take this statement

"Neither Governments nor Religions based on fear should be tolerated by the thinking man."

To an atheist, it is entirely reasonable.  And to a believer it could be entirely unreasonable.  And the fact that whoever wrote that sentence doesn't really understand what religion really is, is obvious.  They view religion as a set of hokey rules that may or may not have had their roots in past traditions or ways of life, and that the followers of the religions do so by choice because they see something in the religion they want.  They view religion like joining a club or registering with a political party.  The very fact that religion and government are included on the same level shows this as well.

But to a believe there is no comparison.  God is God.  What He says goes.  It's not up to vote, it's not a personal choice, there is no "personal truth" or the leeway to decided which beliefs or practices make you feel good.  God is the King of all and He deserves your obedience no matter what.  230RN looks at religion like a club or a political party that one chooses to align themselves with, and that those who do not are somehow more free.  As if God only exists for believers, and that by choosing not to believe, He or his Will no longer applies to you.  A believer sees that as false.  A believer sees God as in control no matter what you choose to believe.  Bottom line, and atheist sees atheism as setting oneself free.  A believer sees atheism as damning oneself.  The two can never see eye to eye.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2010, 04:01:37 AM »
I'm sorry, I can't seem to see that this avenue of debate is productive.

Well, no, but I don't think it has anything to do with our various religious beliefs. Just the usual thread drift and heated debate.

I wish it were possible to explain Christian doctrines without people getting the idea that I demand they believe it right there and then.  I also wish it were possible to point out weak arguments or misconceptions without being accused of working for the Pope and Orthodox Judaism at the same time.

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Fistful (as far as I can discern, and for example) believes the Bible is a single, coherent document dictated by an infallible deity.

A barely qualified yes. I believe the words of the original autographs were inspired by God, albeit to many different people in many different situations, over thousands of years, on three different continents, in at least three main languages. The extant documents give us an extremely accurate notion of what those originals said. 

That being said, I'm not offended by mere statements to the contrary.  Of course, there are offensive ways of stating it.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2010, 04:06:46 AM »
Isn't it correct that Christians view the body as a sort of divine gift to man (sort of like Jews), and thus body modification to be a sort of tarnishing of that gift?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2010, 04:13:13 AM »
Isn't it correct that Christians view the body as a sort of divine gift to man (sort of like Jews), and thus body modification to be a sort of tarnishing of that gift?

 I've never heard it put that way. What I usually hear is a) the body of a Christian is the temple of the Holy Spirit, b) the Old Testament says no "cutting," and c) the New Testament says "avoid every appearance of evil" and that's one of them. 

I'm not sure those are convincing arguments, and I get real worried when Christians start talking like the Mosaic law applies to believers in the Christian era.

Also, it could be argued that some modifications are an embellishment. I guess. On the larger issue, though, I would think Christians and Jews would regard the body as one of many gifts from God.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2010, 04:45:15 AM »
But to a believe there is no comparison.  God is God.  What He says goes.  It's not up to vote, it's not a personal choice, there is no "personal truth" or the leeway to decided which beliefs or practices make you feel good.  God is the King of all and He deserves your obedience no matter what.  230RN looks at religion like a club or a political party that one chooses to align themselves with, and that those who do not are somehow more free.  As if God only exists for believers, and that by choosing not to believe, He or his Will no longer applies to you.  A believer sees that as false.  A believer sees God as in control no matter what you choose to believe.  Bottom line, and atheist sees atheism as setting oneself free.  A believer sees atheism as damning oneself.  The two can never see eye to eye.

I don't think all atheists are like that, but some people persist in the belief that warning a person of hell is the same as wanting them to go to hell. They interpret all religious teachings as the personal opinion of the believer.

For whatever reason, the neo-pagans on this board seem best able to digest Christian (or other) religious views and accept that other people believe them, without seeming offended thereby.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 05:11:20 AM by Fistful »
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2010, 06:23:23 AM »
Yes, I have a lofty view of my qualifications in this area.  They are, by any measure, impressive, and I have never hidden them, although I have never been asked for the details, and I can't imagine anyone would be interested.  I'm not sure why you have decided to snark about my qualifications for discussing religious issues, but I do find it pretty rude.

But, if you're going to insist that bringing up a related issue is dwelling on irrelevancies, that noting a similar style of argumentation between you and another culture is equating you with that culture, that noting that one thing tends logically to lead into a second thing is the same thing as accusing you personally of doing or supporting the second thing, then I'm probably going to assume that you are either not terribly well equipped to engage in reasoned debate or that you have no interest in reasoned debate, but only in the sort of "yuh-huh/nuh-uh" that is so pervasive and so boring. 

Ron

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2010, 10:18:22 AM »
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This is why I think I have never really understood Christianity.  I've been thinking in terms of legal interpretation since before I could talk, and so this insistence that there is a law, but that the law is simple and just boils down x doesn't really work.  The next question is always "Why x?" and what happens when x comes up against y?  Life requires choices.  Laws tell you how to respond to choices.  Laws boiled down to simple adages really don't.

The "law" as laid down by God is a simple tool to demonstrate that you cannot follow it perfectly.

At the root of most Judeo/Christian thought or doctrine(s) is the fallibility of man and the mercy of God. 

In the realm of Christian "do's and don'ts" all things are permissible (and forgivable by God) but not all things are profitable (best for everyone involved).

As a lawyer I would think the concept of intent is something you could understand.

Love your neighbor and God with all your heart.

Define who is your neighbor and what it means to truly love, then do your best to act/live accordingly, even though you will continually fail to be perfect in both your interpretation and application.

Our fallibility in not being able to do this perfectly (not having the mind of God nor the nature to do it naturally) is where Gods mercy comes in to play. For His mercy endureth forever.

Myself, I'll just do what I can to try and love my neighbor, relying on Gods mercy as demonstrated by His sending Jesus to be our Messiah. For ultimately as a Christian believer, all one can do is depend on Gods mercy as you imperfectly try to emulate Gods love here on earth.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Ron

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2010, 10:27:09 AM »
How the above applies to the OP?

Using those who you have ultimate power over (children) to gratify your own physical desires does not reflect the moral precept of "loving your neighbor" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Instead of nurturing, protecting and devoting their very lives to the betterment of the children's station in life they use the powerless to gratify their most basic urges.

What is best for the other person (the boys) is not preeminent to those with power but what is "best" for those who hold the power is preeminent.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 10:32:45 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Scout26

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2010, 10:38:20 AM »
When I got out of the Army, I went to work for Pepsico and had to take Food Service Sanitation Classes.  One of the things I figured out while going through those classes is the Jewish Kosher laws were the first food safety laws.  

Keep in mind that thousands of years ago no one knew about germ theory, bacteria, or even basic sanitation.  Refrigeration was non-existent.  So if you read Leviticus in that context it makes perfect sense.  So, the dietary restrictions are simply ways to prevent illness and disease.  

It does state when men and women are "unclean", and gives times for them to clean themselves.  Again, no one knew about STD's so the "Diddle only one person ever in your life" rule makes sense.   Again to prevent illness and the spread of disease.  Whether "devinely inspired" or written by one of more folks who go some great expert advise.  If you take the restrictions at face value, they (mostly) make perfect sense.   I specifically found interesting the unclean periods for men after battles (which back then was up close and personal), so that they could mentally re-adjust to "normal" life.  

However, what has happen since that was written, was men (in this point being argued here, Rabbis)  began to "interpret" the Bible and they come up with complete silliness that ends up ruining or destroying lives.  They fail to go back to orginal intent.


Just to throw the nuclear handgrenade into the mix.  Where in the New Testament does Jesus say "Hey,  the Big Guy was just kidding about that whole pork thing. So, can I get a side of bacon at the Last Supper?"  

And to get to the OP's article.  

Did not the Greeks, (specifically the Spartan), which serve as the basis for modern society, routinely and as a matter of course commit homosexual pedophilia ??
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 10:48:58 AM by scout26 »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »
Where in the New Testament does Jesus say "Hey,  the Big Guy was just kidding about that whole pork thing. So, can I get a side of bacon at the Last Supper?" 

Acts chapter 10, I Corinthians chapter 8. Of course, it never says that kosher laws were a joke, only that the Mosaic law was only meant for that epoch of time.  The epoch was ended.


Yes, I have a lofty view of my qualifications in this area.  They are, by any measure, impressive, and I have never hidden them, although I have never been asked for the details, and I can't imagine anyone would be interested.  I'm not sure why you have decided to snark about my qualifications for discussing religious issues, but I do find it pretty rude.
These impressive qual's no doubt explain why you can't tell the difference between an evangelical Christian and an Orthodox Jew.


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But, if you're going to insist that bringing up a related issue is dwelling on irrelevancies, that noting a similar style of argumentation between you and another culture is equating you with that culture, that noting that one thing tends logically to lead into a second thing is the same thing as accusing you personally of doing or supporting the second thing, then I'm probably going to assume that you are either not terribly well equipped to engage in reasoned debate or that you have no interest in reasoned debate, but only in the sort of "yuh-huh/nuh-uh" that is so pervasive and so boring. 
I guess if I'm so much like that culture, and you don't want to present any evidence thereof, I'll just have to take your word for it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 11:42:46 AM by Fistful »
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2010, 12:42:41 PM »
These impressive qual's no doubt explain why you can't tell the difference between an evangelical Christian and an Orthodox Jew.

So, are you willfully refusing to read what I actually wrote, or does the thought sharing a rhetorical style with adherents of another faith freak you so much that you're just completely unable to process what I actually wrote?

Alrighty, once more, with feeling:

1) You broke down "religions that have hangups with food" into two categories.  Category one, the Western Religions, has proscriptions, according to you, based on cleanliness and forbidding impure animals.  Category two, certain non-Western religions with hangups about food, specifically about meat, does no, according to you, actually have hangups about food, but about killing, and so they aren't really a category.

Of course, this is a false dichotomy, because Judaism has a couple different bodies of law about food, one of which is entirely about avoiding cruelty, avoiding eating a "living animal" (which may include an animal killed improperly).

You decided that this was irrelevant, because you had already classified Judaic food laws.  I disagree.  You classified Judaic food laws wrong.  As with so many things, here, life defies categorization.

2) You are a religious apologist.  I said so.  I didn't say anything about you being an apologist for over-controlling or patriarchal religions.  In fact, I didn't use either of those descriptors.  Or um, any descriptors. 

3) I said that you and members of the yeshiva world use the same sorts of arguments.  This is not actually the same this as saying you are a Jew, or as saying you defend Jews, or that you have anything to do with Jews.  All it means is that you use the same sorts of arguments. 

Like, for example, when you don't understand a comment but suspect that it's somehow being used against you (an assumption you jump to pretty quickly), instead of asking for clarification, you choose an alternate and generally non-sensical reading and then try to insult the utterer on the basis of your bizarre re-reading.  You  act as though you you are unable to process any comment as anything other than slavish agreement or a substantive attack.  Hence, "Dude, your categorization scheme doesn't work for these reasons" becomes in your mind some kind of attack that somehow equates you with Jews. 

But, hey, probably the most delightful thing about Fundamentalists of all stripes is how profoundly convinced they are that people who disagree with them are stupid or ignorant.  You've already decided that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about, apparently because I have an emotional interest in religion, a comment that certainly raises questions about your logic system.  I could lay out my intellectual background and credentials in theology, law, comparative religion, and logic, but really, what would be the point? This isn't about anything other than your refusal to actually read what I wrote, or your inability to understand it, preferring to attack me on the basis of your refusal to actually read it.  And that's just dumb.  But very yeshivish. 


Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2010, 02:31:47 PM »
You have made clear that you see me as an apologist for "any religious and male establishment."

Quote from: Bridgewalker
But of course, once again, you stand firmly for the knee-jerk defense of any foolishness perpetrated by any religious and male establishment, out of some imagined bond of shared male religiosity, complete with the oft-repeated insistence that religious men are are somehow the victims, what with the y'know, most sane people thinking they're nuts and all.  How dare we be so intolerant?
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=25587.msg497268#msg497268

If you are retracting the remark, that's fine with me.  I just wish you had told me, before making a similar comment that would lead me to believe the same attack was ongoing.

By the way, the above is how we back up something that we say about someone.  Not with ramblings sans evidence.

I am sorry that, despite your vast knowledge, you didn't understand the conversation Terry and I were having, or how kosher laws about inhumane killing are not applicable thereto.  I guess I can't do anything about that.  I will presume that your wild mischaracterization of my past and present commentary results from similar failure to get it.

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But, hey, probably the most delightful thing about Fundamentalists of all stripes is how profoundly convinced they are that people who disagree with them are stupid or ignorant.
So that would make two of us. Good to see we have something in common.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 02:54:21 PM by Fistful »
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