McDonald's, 29 other firms get health care coverage waivers

[roo_ster]

I have witnessed socialized health care. My back pain is its own socialized health care horror story.

As have I, in the guise of the US Military.  Ohh, the blood-curdling stories I could tell, to include one where I nearly had to drag an officer in my unit off some worthless MD who was plying fast & loose with the officer's son's surgery.

Health care never cost me so much as when it was "free."

[Iain]

I have witnessed socialized health care. My back pain is its own socialized health care horror story.

Oh so have I. More than most have.

Pointless effing nonsense these thread degenerate into. Claims of panel vans for ambulances, I'm sorry, maybe that was the case some time ago, but what's the point of that comparision? When I called an ambulance for my dad three years ago they were there inside ten minutes. Modern, equipped ambulance.

You want to know what happened on my recent stay in hospital? You wouldn't believe it. It was absolutely fine. Palatable food, ensuite room.

One thing I've learned in these threads is that the US healthcare system is not as bad as certain people/outlets would have you believe. Despite my participation in these threads though, they still degenerate into 'OMG, socialised EVILLL!!!1'

[HeroHog]

In 2009 when I was making $70k+ a year and had good insurance, I paid out over $10k out of my pockets NOT counting the cost of my insurance which was substantial.

[TommyGunn]

This is one of the reasons they socialized medicine here in Australia - along with trade unionism.  The trade unions wanted something that wouldn't go bankrupt, and the voting population here won't countenance the sick and the old going without care because they can't afford it.

Tommy, I live in socialized medicine right now.  As far as available statistics show, the level of care here is equivalent to America.  There are some specific areas where America does better, and some where it does worse.  On the whole, measures of outcomes do not demonstrate that health care is any worse in Australia.

De Selby, if you're happy with what you have down under, then good for you and God bless you.   What I am trying to say is that this just IS NOT GOING TO WORK HERE.  I am nearing retirement age and have been watching our control-freak nimrods in Washington stuff one program after another down our throats for decades.  Social Security was supposed to be wonderful when it was passed; it's now almnost bankrupt. The "trust fund" set up for it has been ROBBED by politicians decades ago.  It's a multi-generational Ponzi Scheme and it is going to collapse.  I don't know when; the politicians can jigger numbers around and raise the retirement age, and also the tax numbers on higher income earners and things like that to press the years of failur back, but only so far.  We have social welfare programs piled on top of each other, welfare cheats and all sorts of "moochers" living off the sweat of others, especially in some big cities, but also elsewhere.
Our government is huge, intrusive, grotesquely inefficient and corrupt.  The Aussies might be wonderful people and the government composed of stellar patriots and geniuses.  Maybe .... I don't know.  
I am trying to say one more big government program here WON'T WORK.
Why do I say that?
Because it CAN'T work.

Albert Einstein once said, "the definition of insanity is when you keep trying the same thing over and over and expect different results."  We've tried big govt. programs since F.D.R.'s day.  All we get is more incompetence, more corruption, more government intrusion.
There is no provision in the Constitution of the United States of America that allows for the government to force anyone to buy anything, let alone health care insurance.  Not only are our politicians ignoring the founding legal documents of America (like THIS is new!!!!!) they are trying to get us to believe that people who aren't buying insurance ---maybe because it's too expensive for them now??   --- will somehow be able to after government decree.  
You tell me how THAT works???

Americans have a lot of illusions.  Especially, it seems, the Americans that are living now.  We seem to think the government is -- and should be -- everything to everyone.  It can't.  We are so far in debt now it's going to take a generation to pay it off if we scrimp and more than that if we keep pretending the government can afford everything we want.

The level of care in Australia might be equivelent to what we have in America.  But the care in Canada is not, and the care available in Great Britain is not.  My parents lived in Great Britain and experienced their health care joke .... and enough Canadians have reported on what they've found out in their own system .... and come down to America for our treatment .... to know what is available there.  

If you're happy down under, stay there.  Maybe miracles happen in places that experience summer during our winter and where sharks lurk amongst the reefs surrounding the land .... I don't know.   I know I don't believe in miracles ....and I know our own government is completly incapable of producing miracles.


Have fun .... down under .....

[De Selby]

Tommy, the thing about stories is that everyone has them - do you honestly believe no one waits for care in America?  There's a reason the emergency room wait is always hours upon hours; for 40 million people or so, that's about the only way they're going to get substantial care of any kind if they need it.

These discussions never use numbers - it's always "won't work in America!" "cost cost cost!", when every relevant statistic says the opposite.

Of course, there are very specific types of cancer that are dealt with better in the US.  But that isn't exactly a game-changer, considering that at some specific treatments the US falls behind.  For twice the cost of a socialist system, you'd expect significantly better results.

[TommyGunn]

Tommy, the thing about stories is that everyone has them - do you honestly believe no one waits for care in America?  There's a reason the emergency room wait is always hours upon hours; for 40 million people or so, that's about the only way they're going to get substantial care of any kind if they need it.

These discussions never use numbers - it's always "won't work in America!" "cost cost cost!", when every relevant statistic says the opposite.

Of course, there are very specific types of cancer that are dealt with better in the US.  But that isn't exactly a game-changer, considering that at some specific treatments the US falls behind.  For twice the cost of a socialist system, you'd expect significantly better results.

Deselby, please enjoy your stories.
And please GET MY POINT.

Our government is not competant enough to properly oversee a socialized medical system.  
Please get this, if nothing else.

I have had to take family members to the hospital.  And I've never had to wait very long.  Oh wait, that's another story. 

Hey, I got an idea.  Why don't you come over here and run our wonderful new socialized medical system!!

And please tell me all about "statistics."   Figures may not lie by liars do figure, as they say.

[De Selby]

And please tell me all about "statistics."   Figures may not lie by liars do figure, as they say.

Sure - here's the report I've quoted before:  http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

I've seen no reports posted that refute these numbers - only references to specific types of cancer treatments and premature baby treatments that rate slightly better in the US than they do in other countries.  As this report notes, there isn't any clear advantage overall to receiving care in the US.  

Some quotes:

However, research comparing the quality of care has not found the United States to be superior overall. Nor does the U.S. population have substantially better access to health care resources, even putting aside the issue of the uninsured. Although the United States does not have long wait times for non-emergency surgeries, unlike some OECD countries, Americans found it more difficult to make same-day doctor’s appointments when sick and had the most difficulty getting care on nights and weekends. They were also most likely to delay or forgo treatment because of cost.

[TommyGunn]

Do you know why the United States spends so much on health care?
Government is one reason.  Lawyers and law suits are another.
Yet another growing reason is the influx of illegal aliens over the past few decades.  These people all go to hospitals and under our system, receive free care.  Due to this many hospitals in the southwest are on the verge of bankruptcy.
The solution is not socialized healthcare. The British system has degraded much under their system.  Ours is already beginning to.
Especially insurance.  Insurance providers are already dropping policies for children because they simply won't be able to afford Obamacare.
A great deal of the reason why health insurance is so damned expensive is because the government(s) has mandated certain types of coverage and determined that they cannot sell across state lines.

I guess it just stuns me that people think that a problem caused, in very large part, by government can be cured by .... YET MORE GOVERNMENT.

De Selby, as I said elsewhere, enjoy your self where you are.  Another  "academic study" is not going to convince me that the martinet morons in our government are anywhere near as capable of administering a system in America that is  as wondrous as what you have in upside-down land.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

You're still peddling that faulty CRS study, SS?

I thought we put that to rest last year.