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Author Topic: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?  (Read 8114 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« on: October 16, 2010, 10:58:29 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101017/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants;_ylt=AnQNLvycHYUDF49oe9H2Bqqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNza3JyMnFiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMDE3L3VzX2dwc190cmFja2luZ193YXJyYW50cwRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzEEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawNvaWxjaGFuZ2VyZWk-


It appears that the FBI is ignoring the rules in the name of expediency.  I don't care what a person's name is, do by the book or don't do it at all.  This reminds me of the mid 90's where every bunch of guys who met out in the woods or desert to shoot was imagined to be a militia and had to be watched by any method available. It got very tiring very quickly.
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Thor

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 11:02:04 PM »
They would and they do. The only safe way to prevent them doing this without a warrant is to park behind locked gates or in the garage. If a person's vehicle is accessible to the public, then they can do as they wish.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 11:11:17 PM »
Attaching stuff to folks' cars without a warrant?   :facepalm: 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 11:57:58 PM »
ninth circuit signed off on it.  under the premise that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy driving your car.  its info the gov could get by poating a tail and since the tail is kosher the electronic one is too
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 12:14:16 AM »
Quote from: Fistful on October 16, 2010, 11:11:17 PM
Attaching stuff to folks' cars without a warrant?   :facepalm: 

Where have you been? This isn't even new news. It's been going on for long enough to have multiple U.S. courts hear appeals and hand down conflicting opinions.

Yes, they do it. One more reason to love your country but to fear your government. George Orwell only missed by about 20 years.
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Jim147

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 12:31:58 AM »
Quote
Yes, they do it. One more reason to love your country but to fear your government. George Orwell only missed by about 20 years.

Are you sure he missed or does the interweb just bring us a lot of things we never would have heard about happening twenty years ago. [tinfoil]

jim
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 12:37:12 AM »
Quote from: Hawkmoon on October 17, 2010, 12:14:16 AM
Where have you been? This isn't even new news. It's been going on for long enough to have multiple U.S. courts hear appeals and hand down conflicting opinions.

Fourth amendment issues aren't really my specialty, sorry.
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bedlamite

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 08:24:58 AM »
I've heard about these before. If I found something like that on my truck, the next time it was found would likely be on a greyhound bus on the other side of the country.
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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 08:41:57 AM »
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 08:53:30 AM »
Quote from: bedlamite on October 17, 2010, 08:24:58 AM
I've heard about these before. If I found something like that on my truck, the next time it was found would likely be on a greyhound bus on the other side of the country.

Nah, they'd probably try to treat it like you were going around slapping magnetic IED's on buses and burn you at the stake for it. It would be amusing though if you, say, had a friend who was a cargo master on a national guard C-17....

FBI: "Alright, lets see where Habib has been this week.... Minneapolis... Philadelphia... Ramstein?!"
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230RN

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 09:43:00 AM »
Memo to all Oil Change Franchisees:  If you find a strange device on a customer's car, take no chances.  Have the local Bomb Squad dismount it and blow it up.

Same memo to all auto mechanics and dealer service departments.

(Obligatory Detcord remark goes here.)
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 10:24:56 AM »
Have you guys never heard of satire, or cynicism? I wasn't born yesterday, or under a toadstool. 

 I don't want our government violating our rights under any pretense.  We lost more with the "Patriot" Act than at any time in our entire history as a Nation.  Each new incident gives them the excuse to tighten the screws down one more thread, and our people buy it in the name of "security", or some such BS.  Allowing ever more invasive means for keeping track of people only makes us prisoners in our own homes, and does little to actually protect us.
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HeroHog

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 11:35:14 AM »
Seems to me that turnabout is fair play. We should be able to attach whatever bug we would like to any police/govt vehicle parked in a public area. Also, if I find something attached to my car, isn't it then MINE and the person who put it there wouldn't have any legal claim to it as it was attached to my property without my permission or at my request?
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 12:42:08 PM »
Quote from: HeroHog on October 17, 2010, 11:35:14 AM
Seems to me that turnabout is fair play. We should be able to attach whatever bug we would like to any police/govt vehicle parked in a public area. Also, if I find something attached to my car, isn't it then MINE and the person who put it there wouldn't have any legal claim to it as it was attached to my property without my permission or at my request?

Yup!  You must be one of the "old guys" like me.
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HankB

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2010, 12:55:24 PM »
I think such an electronic gizmo could be treated as a gift.

An amusing thought . . . attach the gizmo to the car driven by a Fed's spouse.

Wait a day or two, and then call the spouse and let her know that her SO is keeping an eye on her with electronic surveillance provided by .gov.

Sit back and watch the marital hilarity.   >:D

Or - you could bug a reporter's car . . . or that of a member of Congress. Or maybe the head of the local ACLU chapter?

(Hmmm . . . what kind of car does Jesse Jackson drive?)
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vaskidmark

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2010, 01:21:02 PM »
Quote from: adively on October 17, 2010, 08:41:57 AM
If it happens to you, just don't take pictures and post it on the Internet.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101008/03035211331/guy-finds-fbi-tracking-device-on-car-posts-pics-online-fbi-shows-up-demanding-it-back.shtml

The comment that the "newer" devices run off the car's battery are all wrong.  Judges in 5 Circuits have held thatcattaching the device to he car's battery is a deep intrusion into privacy and needs a warrant.  The lithium-ion button batteries will power a tracking device for several months - and the newer devices are much smaller than what was pictured.

Without a warrant you could probably consider the device as either a gift or flotsam picked up off the road surface.  It's yours.  Do not go putting strange objects on other peoples' property without permission - you might wind up charged with some sort of enemy combatant charge if not a WMD accusation.  However, you could mail it to yourself in care of General Delivery in some town you have always wanted to go visit. ;)

stay safe.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2010, 01:54:16 PM »
for less than 500 bucks you or i can buy a widget to do this and get cell phone updates from its gps unit    or so i've heard
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Thor

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2010, 03:00:55 PM »
Another thing that the .gov is doing is driving by vehicles & homes, peeking inside with their XRay  vans:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/technology-x-rays-homeland-security-aclu-drive-by-snooping.html
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2010, 03:11:18 PM »
Quote from: Thor on October 17, 2010, 03:00:55 PM
Another thing that the .gov is doing is driving by vehicles & homes, peeking inside with their XRay  vans:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/technology-x-rays-homeland-security-aclu-drive-by-snooping.html

vehicles?  yes   homes???  show me?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2010, 03:21:41 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on October 17, 2010, 03:11:18 PM
vehicles?  yes   homes???  show me?

That makes it okay then.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 03:30:15 PM »
xraying cars?  especially at the level they are?  on a public street?  yea  i'm ok with that.  homes?  not so much.
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HeroHog

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 04:32:04 PM »
I hope someone DOES bring this to it's inevitable end and bug a senators car or a mayor, chief of police and make use of that info. I want someone to find a bug on their car, publicize the fact and do whatever they dang well please with as it is now their property. Ideally, I want to see a back-hack that exposes who and where the devices are coming from. It would all be legal, would it not? I mean, come on, lets use this gift we have been handed!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 06:32:41 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on October 17, 2010, 03:30:15 PM
xraying cars?  especially at the level they are?  on a public street?  yea  i'm ok with that. 

Pardon me if I am puzzled by that. If you're using an x-ray, it's because you want to see something that would otherwise be hidden from view. So anything you're looking at violates a person's reasonable expectation of privacy, by definition.  ???
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 06:48:55 PM »
depends what they are looking for and how its hidden  the idea you have a reasonable expectation of privacy while committing a crime is questionable. and its a public street  the use of a dog to sniff is kosher  this is an extension of that
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Our .gov wouldn't do this would they?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2010, 07:57:37 PM »
I think they would have a hard time x-raying my house from the county road 600 feet away  ;)
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