Author Topic: The Korean conflict thread  (Read 1969 times)

gunsmith

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The Korean conflict thread
« on: November 24, 2010, 01:04:06 AM »
 I looked & didn't see a thread on the current flinging of explosive material.
The talking heads on Fox say we need to lean on China, B.O says "that's not very nice" or something to that effect.

 I'm thinking "One Second After" and am hoping I'm wrong cause I'm totally under prepped 
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vaskidmark

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 05:52:27 AM »
It's a ploy to get folks' minds off the TSA groping.  Look at that thread for more on that idea.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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stevelyn

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 07:21:54 AM »
I sure crazy Little Kim isn't the least bit concerned about the Transportation Sturmabteilung.

They're trying to provoke a response for some reason. First they sink a ROK navy ship. Then they reveal a very sophisticated uranium enrichment facilty to an American nuclear scientist who seemed to be pretty alarmed at what he saw. Now they lob artillery shells at an island that is clearly under ROK control and occupied by ROK citizens killing several. WTF? ???  ???

Did China let out a little more chain on their junkyard dog?
Does this have something to do with the forthcoming transition of power to the third generation of crazy little Kims?
A cry for help?

On a separate note I noticed that the tv talking heads of the lamestream media were giving more attention to a bunch of inbred Brits rather than events that could plunge us into a very serious conflict.  ;/
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Lennyjoe

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 07:30:26 AM »
There's a thread in the politics section titled "The Norks...."

AJ Dual

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2010, 11:05:50 AM »
Two things:

1. They had just gotten caught with a new uranium enrichment program. EVERY TIME they feel the need to strengthen their position in talks/negotiations, they have an "incident" or blow something up, launch a rocket. They do this like clockwork. The ROK/U.S. just ought to offer the DRPK an old ship to blow up every time it happens instead, it's so predictable.

2. Jong Jr. or whatever his name is starting to be publicly groomed for succession. Maintaining the state of external crisis keeps things more secure internally against a coup etc.

I think that's really all there is to it.

Of course, the risk is always that even if the Nork's don't really "mean it", shooting at crap... it could blow up into something bigger oh so easily.
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RocketMan

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2010, 11:15:02 AM »
The Norks want money.  They do this so we get our panties in a twist and throw money at them to stop.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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Bob F.

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 11:16:00 AM »
And the UN is now wanting to send more aid to da Norks! I propose we send the UN to da Norks! 2 problems solved!

Stay safe.
Bob
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vaskidmark

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 01:00:50 PM »
And the UN is now wanting to send more aid to da Norks! I propose we send the UN to da Norks! 2 problems solved!

Stay safe.
Bob

Are the Norks that hungry?

Or maybe you know a way of making UN taste a little bit like dog?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 02:18:33 PM »
So I was talking to the Mrs. about this last night.  I know that my opinion on this would be viewed as "escalation".   But frankly, I don't think that it matters at this point.  The NK's are so used to, "be nice to us or we'll do xyz!" that it's time to rattle their cage a little bit.  

I see a couple of options:

1) have a couple of B-2's overfly downtown Pyongyang.  Drop a bunch of canisters filled with leaflets saying, "knock it off, or the next ones will be loaded with bombs, not paper."

2) more dangerous to our flyboys, but have a couple of the biggest supersonic birds we have overfly downtown Pyongyang at about 500 feet and say, Mach 2 or so.   Deliver a message to the powers that be saying "Yes, we can get in, get out, and bomb you back to the stone age and you can't do jack squat about it."

3)  Blow the ever loving snot out of every power plant and nuke facility in the country.  Send a message to the powers that be saying, "Knock it off, or we'll keep you in the dark and the cold until you do."
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 02:21:45 PM by AmbulanceDriver »
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MillCreek

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 02:24:25 PM »
The sticky wicket with this is that NK may either:

crank off a few dozen artillery rounds into the middle of Seoul; or
show the world that they have successfully weaponized their crude nuclear device.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 02:31:47 PM »
So I was talking to the Mrs. about this last night.  I know that my opinion on this would be viewed as "escalation".   But frankly, I don't think that it matters at this point.  The NK's are so used to, "be nice to us or we'll do xyz!" that it's time to rattle their cage a little bit.  

I see a couple of options:

1) have a couple of B-2's overfly downtown Pyongyang.  Drop a bunch of canisters filled with leaflets saying, "knock it off, or the next ones will be loaded with bombs, not paper."

2) more dangerous to our flyboys, but have a couple of the biggest supersonic birds we have overfly downtown Pyongyang at about 500 feet and say, Mach 2 or so.   Deliver a message to the powers that be saying "Yes, we can get in, get out, and bomb you back to the stone age and you can't do jack squat about it."

the korean leadership may/likely not care  then what?

3)  Blow the ever loving snot out of every power plant and nuke facility in the country.  Send a message to the powers that be saying, "Knock it off, or we'll keep you in the dark and the cold until you do."
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AJ Dual

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 02:50:12 PM »
I like the leaflet idea.

Although most anything we do except for the border arty tit-for-tat would probably be at least 50/50 odds the DRPK goes "full retard".

I'm guessing everyone's hope was that Kim Jong dies, his dilettantish son does not have the stomach for the hardcore brinkmanship/bluffing, and some junta of more sane/pragmatic generals takes over in a few years and things soften....

The consensus is that the ROK/US would prevail, but that Seoul, several thousand U.S. servicepeople, and maybe a million South Koreans are toast before that happens. And nobody's willing to pay the price to get this over with.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 03:05:14 PM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

BrokenPaw

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 03:10:31 PM »
3)  Blow the ever loving snot out of every power plant and nuke facility in the country.  Send a message to the powers that be saying, "Knock it off, or we'll keep you in the dark and the cold until you do."

Problem with this is that it really affects the (already pretty miserably-oppressed) people of NK more than it does the far-smaller number in charge.

The people of North Korea don't deserve to suffer more than they already do, in order for us to send a message to leaders whose fingers are stuck in their own ears.

Maybe what we really need to do is call up China and say, "China, look, the whole pet pit-bull thing was cute when you were an economic skinny teenager and you needed to look like a tough guy.  But you're a grownup now, and the dog keeps biting people.  Time to have it put down."  Who knows?  They might listen; there was a time when having NK on a leash that they could release made geopolitical sense for China: projected force coupled with plausible deniability. 

Now, what good is NK really doing China?  It's fairly obvious that even if China wanted to hold on to the mantra of "Communism is teh awesome", NK wouldn't be a good poster child to point to, since there's not even the slightest chance that anyone would believe that the people in NK are living in a paradise brought about by communist ideals.  So what's left?  Force?  Pyongyang can't project force much past Seoul or Japan, and they can't even do that without us stepping in and squashing them like a bug.  And the only thing that would prevent us from doing that is if China faced off against us.  And China doesn't want a global conflict with them on one side and the US on the other; where would they sell their cheap plastic crap?

Having NK as a pet has reached and gone beyond the point of diminishing returns for China.  Maybe we should remind them of that.
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gunsmith

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 04:05:05 PM »
this is why APS is one of the best web sites going-I've learned more in 5 min than a day of TV watching
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

AJ Dual

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 04:12:17 PM »
I think the only reason China still deals with NK, besides the embarrassment of having to finally disavow them, is that they hold out a vague hope for NK to someday be a poor backwater "China" for China to get cheap labor.

The problem with China's own labor force is that the industrialization is causing a growing middle class, but they don't have the land, resources, or economy to allow ALL their population to reach the middle class or even just "American poor" standards of living. Even if they did, they don't know how to control the population when that many of them are educated and materially wealthy, have cars, freedom (by their standards) etc.

Despite the VAST armies of poor labor they posses, there are pressures that make even China and India want to "outsource".  :laugh:
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Monkeyleg

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 07:04:41 PM »
Y'know, AJ, sometimes I can't decide if you really know a lot, or if you just sound like it. ;)

Tallpine

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 09:18:17 PM »
Quote
they hold out a vague hope for NK to someday be a poor backwater "China" for China to get cheap labor

I can tell them right now that "guest workers" are not a good plan...   ;/
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AJ Dual

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 09:31:25 PM »
I can tell them right now that "guest workers" are not a good plan...   ;/

Too late, NK human trafficking is already a big business, a lot of it (like most human trafficking) is prostitution, probably fueled by China's big male/female disparity due to sex elective abortion, and probably medical care withholding from infant girls, and probably some infanticide too.

http://newsblaze.com/story/20070217013751nnnn.nb/topstory.html

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/09/113_42143.html

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2a1517967e3631f1af869285c3fb3edd.931

Don't let the skyscrapers and the Olympic bubble-stadium fool you, much of China is still a third-world basket case. If using China as a bogeyman to get us to clean up our act financially works, I'm all for it.

However, the idea that China will become some sort of ginormous "Japan 2.0" and pass the declining America by into true 1st world status... it's just not going to happen. At least not on the path they're on now. And the authoritarian post-Communist government manipulates the Yuan, and "cooks the books" in some pretty significant ways that even the Fed Reserve at it's worst couldn't dream of.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 08:30:00 AM »
The problem with North Korea is that they have hundreds of thousands of hostages: the population of Seoul.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Korean conflict thread
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2010, 08:58:49 AM »
Already under discussion in politics.
JD

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