Pilots: How is this difficult?

[AZRedhawk44]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/30/report-co-pilot-moved-seat-sent-jetliner-plumetting/?hpt=C2

Co-pilot sends 737 into 26 degree descent accidentally.  Evidently he didn't keep his hands off the yoke when adjusting his seat (don't you adjust your seat and all mirrors before you start driving?).  And he didn't know how to recover from a steep dive.

With all the fly-by-wire fun we have in planes now, it wouldn't be a case of having the muscle to get the wing surfaces to deploy appropriately.

Would the actual hydraulic pumps or motors that control the wing's surfaces by too weak to overcome the wind resistance in a dive?

What more is there besides "pull up, stupid?"


And... evidently cockpit doors have an emergency code and pin-pad, at least for Indian airlines.

I'm sure that NO TERRORIST COULD POSSIBLY BRIBE/THREATEN someone to get the cockpit door code.  Or that the cockpit door code is unique per plane.

[Jamisjockey]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/30/report-co-pilot-moved-seat-sent-jetliner-plumetting/?hpt=C2

Co-pilot sends 737 into 26 degree descent accidentally.  Evidently he didn't keep his hands off the yoke when adjusting his seat (don't you adjust your seat and all mirrors before you start driving?).  And he didn't know how to recover from a steep dive.

With all the fly-by-wire fun we have in planes now, it wouldn't be a case of having the muscle to get the wing surfaces to deploy appropriately.

Would the actual hydraulic pumps or motors that control the wing's surfaces by too weak to overcome the wind resistance in a dive?
What more is there besides "pull up, stupid?"


And... evidently cockpit doors have an emergency code and pin-pad, at least for Indian airlines.

I'm sure that NO TERRORIST COULD POSSIBLY BRIBE/THREATEN someone to get the cockpit door code.  Or that the cockpit door code is unique per plane.

There are two effects. One is simple resistance, which at certain speeds can be nearly impossible to overcome. 
The other is Mach Tuck. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck
If the aircraft was approaching Mach in the dive it could have very well been the problem. 

[Perd Hapley]

The airline said that the co-pilot hadn't been trained for that type of emergency. Me wonders whether he had any training at all.

[AZRedhawk44]

I don't have an ounce of pilot training but I knew that approaching the sound barrier, conventional wings (i.e. wings that aren't expressly designed for supersonic flight) lose lift at those speeds due to "weirdness" of pressure like Jamis' link provided. 

My gut reaction when reading the story was "throttle down, deploy flaps and pull up, stupid."

[Fly320s]

Sounds like the FO is an idiot. 

I can't imagine how a 737 would "accidently" go into a 26 degree dive. That is a very steep, very uncomfortable, descent angle. I've never seen that descent angle, even in a simulator during an emergency descent drill.

As for the cockpit door, what would happen if both pilots were incapacitated and there was no way to open the door?

[Devonai]

In the simulator, if I compress in my P-38G/J/L, I adjust my elevator trim tabs and hope I pull out in time.  No idea if this would work in a 737.

[Boomhauer]

Third world airlines...

What more is there besides "pull up, stupid?"

He could also have simply panicked and froze up...it's a quality that should be identified during flight training (and hopefully the trainee would have been removed from training)...my sister is one of these types of people- the *expletive deleted*it hits the fan, and she has no clue of how to slow down and think for a second. Worse, she panics and then starts doing stupid stuff during an emergency...like running around screaming and jabbering.

Notice that the Captain of the aircraft recovered it after diving 7000 feet. No reason FO shouldn't have been able to do so at the start of the dive. Notice that the captain remained calm enough to enter the emergency code on the cockpit door and take control. So it's not a mechanical or aerodynamic thing going on here.

[Jamisjockey]

Third world airlines...

He could also have simply panicked and froze up...it's a quality that should be identified during flight training (and hopefully the trainee would have been removed from training)...my sister is one of these types of people- the *expletive deleted* hits the fan, and she has no clue of how to slow down and think for a second. Worse, she panics and then starts doing stupid stuff during an emergency...like running around screaming and jabbering.

Notice that the Captain of the aircraft recovered it after diving 7000 feet. No reason FO shouldn't have been able to do so at the start of the dive. Notice that the captain remained calm enough to enter the emergency code on the cockpit door and take control. So it's not a mechanical or aerodynamic thing going on here.

I disagree.  Mach tuck goes away as you go faster, plus the denser air at 7000' would change the aerodynamics of the aircraft.

That said, I seriously doubt the level of training and quality of the FO was very high...

[RocketMan]

That said, I seriously doubt the level of training and quality of the FO was very high...

"Gupta, are you finished loading the baggages?  You are?  Good, because now you must come to the cockpit and be piloting together with me."

[Jamisjockey]

"Gupta, are you finished loading the baggages?  You are?  Good, because now you must come to the cockpit and be piloting together with me."

In this economy, even the Nigerian scammers are having to take second jobs!

[Thor]

Don't most 37s  have an auto-pilot?? I think I would have engaged that before attempting to adjust my seat, at a minimum. Hopefully, all of that would have been done before I was pushed out from the gate.

[Tallpine]

Maybe the fool didn't even notice 

There's not a lot of visual indicators in the sky, you know.

Or maybe he had pushed the seat back and put his feet up on the yoke to take a nap ?   

[richyoung]

"Gupta, are you finished loading the baggages?  You are?  Good, because now you must come to the cockpit and be piloting together with me."

"Welcome to India Air Express Technical Support - all of our assistants are currently busy, but your call is important to us, so please leave your flight number and current altitude, and enjoy our Ravi Shankir hold music.  You call willl be serviced in the order in which it was recieved"


"...Hello, flight 2345, my name is "Bob" and I am in Dallas, (I swear) - how am I to be helping you this day?"

"Oh my goodness gracious - the airliner is to be heading downward at high velocity!"


"Am I speaking with either the senior or junior occupant of the forward pit of penises?"

"  The junior occupant I am, and please hurry!  The sacred cows are getting larger at a tremendous rate!  If we do not do something soon, I will soon be reincarnated!"

[RevDisk]

There are two effects. One is simple resistance, which at certain speeds can be nearly impossible to overcome. 
The other is Mach Tuck. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck
If the aircraft was approaching Mach in the dive it could have very well been the problem. 

[Hawkmoon]

Dunno, but I have a feeling that if a 737 was approaching Mach 1 it would be in serious need of some new wings.

[Jamisjockey]

Dunno, but I have a feeling that if a 737 was approaching Mach 1 it would be in serious need of some new wings.

I'm not sure what the max operating speeds of a 737 are but I'd imagine that with safety margins built in it can go faster than we think.  Hell, at cruise it's already flying mach .78 ish. 

[Tallpine]

at cruise it's already flying mach .78 ish. 

Yeah, but that's in thin air at high altitude, where the IAS never goes over what, about 240 kts ...?

(I used to write simulator s/w, but I've forgotten all the parameters now)

[Jamisjockey]

Beats the booger out of me.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

wonder if the 26 degree descent made the pilot feel a bit rushed in the john

[Tallpine]

wonder if the 26 degree descent made the pilot feel a bit rushed in the john

Well, I'm glad that everything came out all right