Author Topic: Jurors – well, potential jurors – stage revolt in Montanna ( war on drugs )  (Read 12942 times)

gunsmith

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http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_d6b1aaca-edfc-527f-ad11-f1691fdc6e3b.html

hmm, good for them & him, while I think mj is a stupid addictive dangerous drug it did help me quit ciggs so I guess it has its uses. I cant understand why it isn't legal.

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They took the law into their own hands, as it were, and made it clear they weren’t about to convict anybody for having a couple of buds of marijuana. Never mind that the defendant in question also faced a felony charge of criminal distribution of dangerous drugs.

The tiny amount of marijuana police found while searching Touray Cornell’s home on April 23 became a huge issue for some members of the jury panel.

No, they said, one after the other. No way would they convict somebody for having a 16th of an ounce.
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vaskidmark

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If his history is as reoported rhen this was not merely a harassment charge over 1/16th of an ounce of pot.  But then the sentence does not seem to have much behind it as regards keepong a career criminal off the streets, either.

More than anything, I see this as the citizenry saying "Stop!  No more!" regarding harassment charges - if you can't/won't get a decent charge against the guy, just keep working till you can.  10 years for tax evasion did get Capone off the streets, but I seriously doubt anybosy then or now thought the law was really all that upset over his failure to pay income taxes as compared to his other alleged behaviors.

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MicroBalrog

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White Horseradish

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Actually, marijuana is neither addictive nor particularly dangerous. AFAIK, there has never been a recorded case of a pot overdose. There may have been pot-induced twinkie overdoses, though.  >:D
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230RN

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One-sixteenth of an ounce?

Twenty-seven grains?

Holy cow, you can pick up that much in your pants cuffs just by walking two blocks on the 16th Street Mall in Denver.

I gotta laugh.  Jury nullification before there's even a jury.

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Hawkmoon

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Two years ago I was in a jury pool. At voir dire one of the attorneys asked me a question that directly led to discussion of jury nullification: He asked me if I would follow the judge's instructions regarding the law without fail. I was under oath, so I had to be honest.

"That would depend on whether I thought the judge's instructions were in accordance with the law."

Well, THAT created a furor. They actually called in a judge, who proceeded to lecture me that jurors MUST follow the judge's instructions. I informed her honor that I had read a ruling precisely to the contrary by no less than John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the SCOTUS, which stated outright that the jury shall be the trier of the facts and of the law.

Her honor was not happy. I was dismissed from the jury and sent home with instructions to study my history. I did so. I found the case and the citation, and wrote to her honor to show her that I had complied with her instructions ... and that I was right and she was wrong.

Unsurprisingly, I didn't receive a response. I'm wondering if I'll ever be called for jury duty again.
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roo_ster

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Dude chraged was a loser, plain & simple. Too bad gov't relied on a chickenshinola charge instead fo something substantial.

As for the potential jurors, they were doing their duty.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Tallpine

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Yeah, I thought that was cool also.  Turns out the guy had plenty of other charges against him and he plea bargained, but still the MJ charge was ridiculous.

Now they're talking about how to "reform" the Medical MJ law in Montana - more regulations, blah blah blah ...

I have a simple solution - just make growing, using, and possesion of relatively small amounts legal and forget about it.  But nobody wants my ideas  ;/

Heck, put a sales/excise tax on it if they want.   :P
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Hawkmoon

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I have a simple solution - just make growing, using, and possesion of relatively small amounts legal and forget about it.  But nobody wants my ideas  ;/

Heck, put a sales/excise tax on it if they want.   :P

It worked for booze ... there's no reason to believe it wouldn't work for Mary Jane.
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

gunsmith

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Actually, marijuana is neither addictive nor particularly dangerous. AFAIK, there has never been a recorded case of a pot overdose. There may have been pot-induced twinkie overdoses, though.  >:D

yup, mj addicts repeat that mantra until death, as if "psychological addiction" is better than "physical addiction"  as a long time mj smoker who has successfully not smoked for over 15 years and has friends who are long time users ( over 30 years ) it is most definitely addictive and makes people seriously stupid, paranoid.

I still think it should be legal, just like the other dangerous addictive drugs like nicotine & alcohol.  

heres a great vid, its anecdotal to be sure but really illustrates how stupid mj can make you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1kTZRcKZ6Y  
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

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Yeah, I thought that was cool also.  Turns out the guy had plenty of other charges against him and he plea bargained, but still the MJ charge was ridiculous.

Now they're talking about how to "reform" the Medical MJ law in Montana - more regulations, blah blah blah ...

I have a simple solution - just make growing, using, and possesion of relatively small amounts legal and forget about it.  But nobody wants my ideas  ;/

Heck, put a sales/excise tax on it if they want.   :P

We like your ideas Tallpine!
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

geronimotwo

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yup, mj addicts repeat that mantra until death, as if "psychological addiction" is better than "physical addiction"  as a long time mj smoker who has successfully not smoked for over 15 years and has friends who are long time users ( over 30 years ) it is most definitely addictive and makes people seriously stupid, paranoid.

I still think it should be legal, just like the other dangerous addictive drugs like nicotine & alcohol.  

heres a great vid, its anecdotal to be sure but really illustrates how stupid mj can make you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1kTZRcKZ6Y  

do we really need to watch the double rainbow video again!

oh......it's something completely different.  at least the newscaster had a sense of humor!
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

White Horseradish

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yup, mj addicts repeat that mantra until death, as if "psychological addiction" is better than "physical addiction"  as a long time mj smoker who has successfully not smoked for over 15 years and has friends who are long time users ( over 30 years ) it is most definitely addictive and makes people seriously stupid, paranoid.
"makes you stupid" is not the same thing as "dangerous". If it was we would have to declare female company dangerous, it makes a lot of guys stupid. A bad habit you are unwilling to drop is not the same as addiction. Otherwise, you could say a guy I used to work with was addicted to nose picking. 

Words mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. Your being a convert to clean living explains your stand on the subject, but that's just your emotions, not reality.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

Robert A Heinlein

AmbulanceDriver

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"makes you stupid" is not the same thing as "dangerous". If it was we would have to declare female company dangerous, it makes a lot of guys stupid. A bad habit you are unwilling to drop is not the same as addiction. Otherwise, you could say a guy I used to work with was addicted to nose picking. 

Words mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. Your being a convert to clean living explains your stand on the subject, but that's just your emotions, not reality.

And just because you don't believe it to be true, doesn't mean that it isn't true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_dependence

I know, wikipedia, not exactly a rock solid piece of evidence..... 

EXCEPT:

DSM-IV 304.30:  Cannabis Dependence
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MicroBalrog

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l (many clinicians continue to conclude that the relatively mild withdrawal syndrome associated with cannabis indicates that dependence is unlikely and treatment unnecessary
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roo_ster

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When the War on Marijuana has lost Pat Robertson, it has lost America:

http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/22/pat-robertson-wants-to-decrimi#commentcontainer

In a CBN video, Pat thinks it is foolish to criminalize wacky tobacky, it costs too dang much to police it, and mandatory minimums are a good way to make career criminals out of wayward youths.

Then, Pat's CBN handlers say "Hold on, now..."

Like link says, Pat said it and even his handlers' walk-back leaves him opposed to mandatory minimums.

A comment:
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OK, if Pat Robertson has come around, that means that we won, right? I mean, who the *expletive deleted*ck is left after you convince the head of the goddamn Christian Coalition?

That's sort of an auto-win argument. "Pat Robertson gets it and you don't" should sufficiently shame someone into being pro-decrim.
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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What is it that marijuana decriminalization fixes?

I mean. It doesn't imprison drug users. That's cool.

But marijuana is still illegal, which basically means the main problem - the fact the main people selling marijuana are gang-bangers - isn't really fixed, yes?

Am I confused?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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What is it that marijuana decriminalization fixes?

I mean. It doesn't imprison drug users. That's cool.

But marijuana is still illegal, which basically means the main problem - the fact the main people selling marijuana are gang-bangers - isn't really fixed, yes?

Am I confused?

Yeah, it is not "Pot for 12YO boys on every corner" libertopia, but it is significant.  Robertson is not the force he once was, but he has a lot of viewers who maybe haven't given it thought.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
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gunsmith

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And just because you don't believe it to be true, doesn't mean that it isn't true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_dependence

I know, wikipedia, not exactly a rock solid piece of evidence..... 

EXCEPT:

DSM-IV 304.30:  Cannabis Dependence

heck! the DSM agrees with me!  :angel: :angel: :cool: :cool: :-* :-* >:D >:D [ar15] [ar15] [ar15] [ar15]... not that I needed it to, addiction is a cunning beast- it tells you you're not addicted, its a psychological parasite that fools the host into thinking that having a parasite that is sucking your very soul is a spiritual experience.
I know mj is addictive, hands down and its very very dangerous, it enables people to vote for anti gun neo fascist  ... I guess that's why Soro's needs it legalized so bad.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

BridgeRunner

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Yeah, heavy users of MJ who stop using suddenly are gonna have some mild issues.  This is not surprising, considering that people who use MJ very heavily tend to do so do deal with unresolved emotional issues or untreated (or untreatable) mental illness, and when they stop relying on MJ to cope, they have to deal with their emotional issues and the loss of their accustomed crutch. 

I experience minor withdrawal syndrome when I stop cutting myself with razor blades daily.  This does not mean steel is addictive.  It means that the sudden loss of a thing that enables one to cope with or avoid coping with emotional/mental problems on a daily basis is going to cause some things, like anxiety, depression, and insomnia. 

I smoked a couple cigarettes, and I became addicted.  I said hm, this ain't a great idea.  And I kept smoking them.  I smoked a couple joints and I said hm, this ain't a great idea.  And I stopped. 

Not everything that people use to maladaptively cope with emotional problems is horrible and dangerous in and of itself.  As for addictive, there's clearly a spectrum, and MJ is right up there in terms of danger with intimate relationships, razor blades, Red Bull, the internet, tv, coffee, exercise, sex/porn.  All of these things, when relied upon routinely and maladaptively for help coping with emotional difficulty, can cause some serious problems, and all can lead to mild withdrawal symptoms like anxiety, insomia, and depression, when they are suddenly stopped.   

None are generally considered dangerous or addictive.

Tallpine

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Not everything that people use to maladaptively cope with emotional problems is horrible and dangerous in and of itself.

Just about everybody "uses" something.  Some are addicted to work, and some are addicted to going to church.  Should those be illegal  ???

Then there are sports: rock climbing, running (  :P ), or for me - riding and training horses.

"There is nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."  ;)

Actually, horses are an expensive habit, and they are dangerous in and of themselves.
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http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-new-dui-law-could-crack-down-o-122410,0,361152.story

Washington is considering changes to the DUI laws providing for blood draws to test for THC in the event of an injury accident.  Also in the news in Seattle is a recent case in which a subject smoked 'spice', a synthetic marijuana, and ran his Subaru into three pedestrians at the Pike Place Market.  Impairment was the major factor in that crash, although the  suspect is now claiming his brakes went out.
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Jocassee

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FWIW I developed symptoms disturbingly like withdrawal when I was deprived the use of an automobile.
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gunsmith

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in my incredibly humble opinion, an addiction is a compulsive behavior you engage in even though it is spiritual, physical, & psychological impediment. 

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Posted by: BridgeWalker
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Yeah, heavy users of MJ who stop using suddenly are gonna have some mild issues

I'm going to have to disagree,  imo weed is more dangerous on the psychological level than nicotine  on the physical level.  I was a heavy smoker of both Camel non filters and good green bud, 15 years later I still have nightmares about smoking MJ , my old friends who never quit are deranged, they're either truthers, or they think burningman is spiritual, or they think the COTUS actually says "separation of church & state" etc etc - they walk around with blinders on like they're in a fog ...

The nightmare of mj addiction is still with me even though I have not smoked it in 15 years, I quit ciggs 20 years ago- the only time I think about that is. ... never-no nightmares, never a craving
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

MicroBalrog

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Burning man isn't spiritual?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner