So when is it a good idea to shoot someone in a wheelchair in the back?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i know a guy in a wheel chair that i've seen bust up several "able bodied" guys. don't think a chair makes you harmless. and you'd be amazed the firepower he packed in his chair just in case.  the look of horror on the young marine we had to save from him was priceless . he waas never gonna live it down  choked out by a quadraplegic

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Is that a power wheelchair or a manual? The power ones can go pretty fast. IIRC, some can go around 20 MPH.

I personally have no objection to shooting people who deserve it in the back. Take all the unfair advantages you can. I have no sympathy for the knife-wielder. In my book, pulling a knife on cops (or me) and threatening to do harm means that you are desirous of endangering life, and ought to be shot repeatedly, your method of motion be damned. We've got enough stupid violent people in this country.

Could the cops have subdued the guy without putting holes in him? Sure. Pepper spray, tasers, batons. I figure that cops are poorly trained on baton use these days, since massive bruises look so bad to a jury.

[MillCreek]

I am torn between:
1) what the hell was going on around Dallas 20 to 30 years ago that they have so many bad cases? 
2) I'm amazed they actually preserved the evidence for 30 years so that it they were still able to test it.

I listened to the NPR story on this the other day.  Interestingly enough, Dallas has more of these cases than any other county in Texas.  Most or all (I cannot remember which) of the convictions were predicated on eyewitness testimony that was subsequently proved wrong by the DNA evidence.  The reason why so many of these cases are from Dallas is that Dallas was the only county that properly stored the evidence in a fashion such that the DNA did not degrade into uselessness and could be tested years later.  There are probably similar cases in other counties, but those counties discarded the evidence after a period of time or stored them at room temperature and the specimens degraded.  Since there is no evidence to test, DNA testing is of no use.

I have read a lot about Barry Scheck and the Innocence Project, and they are doing some good work.  If anyone of us were wrongfully convicted, we would want someone like them to take up our case.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

he had already stabbed one cop

we had some folks freed here only because the lab tech  violated policy and retained the evidence. i wonder how many more should be free

[AJ Dual]

Is that a power wheelchair or a manual? The power ones can go pretty fast. IIRC, some can go around 20 MPH.

I personally have no objection to shooting people who deserve it in the back. Take all the unfair advantages you can. I have no sympathy for the knife-wielder. In my book, pulling a knife on cops (or me) and threatening to do harm means that you are desirous of endangering life, and ought to be shot repeatedly, your method of motion be damned. We've got enough stupid violent people in this country.

Could the cops have subdued the guy without putting holes in him? Sure. Pepper spray, tasers, batons. I figure that cops are poorly trained on baton use these days, since massive bruises look so bad to a jury.

One does wish there could be a codified universal scale of ass-hattery that would absolve the police or the populace at large from any criminal or civil liability for the use of less-lethal, or lethal force.

Where to draw the line for such a thing is difficult, but wherever it falls, the wheelchair knife-wielder certainly seems to have stepped over it.

[Tallpine]

One does wish there could be a codified universal scale of ass-hattery that would absolve the police or the populace at large from any criminal or civil liability for the use of less-lethal, or lethal force.

Where to draw the line for such a thing is difficult, but wherever it falls, the wheelchair knife-wielder certainly seems to have stepped over it.

Or rolled over it ....?   

[T.O.M.]

Forgot to add, he threw the knife at them, which is when they shot him. While I would think once he had thrown the knife, they could subdue him rather easily, if someone's throwing a knife at me while I have a gun trained on him, it's going be hard not to pull the trigger.I still think the shooting was unnecessary, but it's also easy for me to armchair quarterback the situation.

I think that this is really the key to this situation.  I don't think anyone here would argue that a knife is not a deadly weapon.  Is a thrown knife a deadly weapon?  Or does it lose it's lethality when thrown?  I don't want to debate the reality of how hard it is to throw a knife.  I know. I've tried it. But as armed citizens, we might want to think of it this way..."at what point is a threat of deadly force no longer such a threat that a responsive use of dealy force is no longer legally warranted?"  What is the perp is 25 feet away from you with the knife?  What if it's 30 feet?  What if the knife has a short blade?  What if the perp only has one arm, or one eye?  What if it's in your home, and you're at the top of a starcase with an opened door at the top, and he's at the bottom?  Do you really want the jury to sit and think "man, he should have knocked that knife out of the guy's good arm with a baton instead of shooting him."  Here, wheelchair guy produced a deadly weapon and attempted to use it on an LEO.  Legally good shoot in my opinion.  Good suit defense also.  At the same time, this should become training video for all LEO's, along with a meaningful debate on better ways to handle the situation.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

he was meat as far as i am concerned.  still had knife?  already cut one cop? poor decision making has consequences

[Phyphor]

Really?  Because he's just going to run around stabbing people from his wheelchair?  Taser much? Pepper spray much? 

Flashbang? Stinger grenade? 

It's not like he was going to be able to avoid either.

[KD5NRH]

Flashbang? Stinger grenade? 

Hell, corral him in with a couple of cruisers and call for a firehose.

[Gowen]

Why didn't one of the officers push him down one of those SF hills?  He wouldn't have stopped till he ran into a ferry(sic) in the harbor.

[Ned Hamford]

Given the number of officers on the scene, it seems rather odd they didn't stop traffic.  I suppose when there is a knife being waved around and guns out no one wants to be the guy stuck directing traffic, but the lack of that role being filled makes me think there was a leadership shortage if not a training one.

[Tallpine]

Given the number of officers on the scene, it seems rather odd they didn't stop traffic.  I suppose when there is a knife being waved around and guns out no one wants to be the guy stuck directing traffic, but the lack of that role being filled makes me think there was a leadership shortage if not a training one.

Who was the IC?

Where was the Command Post?

I bet they didn't have a designated Safety Officer either... 


 

[280plus]

Q: So when is it a good idea to shoot someone in a wheelchair in the back?

A: When they're facing away from you, much easier...