.308 Brass - Where?

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm looking to buy a lot of 500 or 1000 pieces of .308 brass.

Ideally, I'd get Remington headstamp, nickel plated.

Midway has it for $225 but they're out of stock.  Grafs wants $275, and it's in stock at that price but that's just too stinking much.

Where can I find new, unprimed, untrimmed Remington nickel plated brass?

Also, no one seems to have .308 Hornady 168gr A-max jacketed bullets in stock.

[Ben]

Have you checked Cabela's? I've been ordering a lot of stuff from them over the last year as their prices on many components have become pretty competitive with Grafs, et al. They usually also have a free shipping or $20 off certificate going.

[charby]

why nickle?

[AZRedhawk44]

why nickle?

They seem to hold up better in my M14.  I get several more firings out of them.  Slippier coming out of the chamber, less stretching.

I've only had a lot of 50 to play with previously so my data isn't scientific by any stretch, but I'd like to try a lot of at least 500 and see if the perception holds up.

[220_SWIFT]

Natchez has the brass for $234.90/500.

http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=RX&prodID=RX225485&prodTitle=Remington%20308%20Winchester%20Nickel%20Plated%20Unprimed%20Brass%2050/bag

[charby]

They seem to hold up better in my M14.  I get several more firings out of them.  Slippier coming out of the chamber, less stretching.

I've only had a lot of 50 to play with previously so my data isn't scientific by any stretch, but I'd like to try a lot of at least 500 and see if the perception holds up.

Make sure you keep you sizing die super clean then.

[AZRedhawk44]

Natchez has the brass for $234.90/500.

http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=RX&prodID=RX225485&prodTitle=Remington%20308%20Winchester%20Nickel%20Plated%20Unprimed%20Brass%2050/bag

Purchased.  Done.  Thanks.

Make sure you keep you sizing die super clean then.

What happens with nickel brass and dirty dies?  Stuck cases?

[220_SWIFT]

Midsouth also has it for $50.31/100 and $480.33/1000


http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0005022548100

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0005022548

They also have some of the A-Max, for $52.32/250.  They do show it as "low stock".

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00003305016

[charby]

What happens with nickel brass and dirty dies?  Stuck cases?

Scratches the nickle plating off the case.

You need really clean brass and a clean die to prevent this.

I don't like to reload nickle for that reason

[AZRedhawk44]

Scratches the nickle plating off the case.

You need really clean brass and a clean die to prevent this.

I don't like to reload nickle for that reason

Never ran into that with the little bit of nickel brass I've used so far.  Either in carbide pistol dies or in traditional rifle dies with case lube.  I clean my dies periodically so that's not too big of a problem.

[AZRedhawk44]

I went out Sunday morning to test my loads.

Load:

New Remington nickel-plated brass
168gr Hornady A-Max bullet
CCI #34 primer
IMR 4895 powder
2.790 OAL
Lee FCD, moderate crimp
Case trim length: 1.990

I found a LOT of case weight variation.  164.0 to 167.5.  I'm not certain if that's because it's Remington brass rather than something with a higher reputation for consistency (Nosler, Norma, etc) or due to the nickel plating that could introduce greater variation.  I grouped the cases into similar-weighted (+/- 0.2gr from a center standard) lots of 5 for each powder charge below:

Powder charges:
5 rounds 39.5gr
5 rounds 40.0gr
5 rounds 40.5gr
5 rounds 41.0gr
5 rounds 41.5gr

I did confirm the weight of each powder charge, though I allowed for a variance of +/- 0.1gr rather than trickling for a perfect target weight.

I didn't weigh the bullets.

Discard farthest "flier" from each 5 round group.  All fliers were called as sight picture was brought into question.  Measure group with 4 best confident shots.  Shooting position was improvised prone rest on top of range bag and padding.  Target  was 100 yards.  Groups measured with a tape measure since I'm too lazy to go hunt down my micrometer right now.

39.5 group:  1.875"
40.0 group:  2.375"
40.5 group:  1.125"
41.0 group:  0.5"
41.5 group:  1.625"

Pretty clear what it likes.  I've never found a sub-MOA group before.  Nifty. 

And... did I mention I trimmed all my new brass for this load development (25 pieces) in about 4 minutes?  I love my new Giraud trimmer.

I'm happy with the nickel-plated brass.  It's not nicked/dinged on extraction so far, whereas new brass will pick up a nice gouge on the side of the case as the extractor flings the case against the front of the op-rod.  These cases are tough enough to escape unscathed.  Extraction groove on the case also has no visible deformity, whereas a typical Federal brass case will have a visible scratch or dent on the rim from even the first firing.  After 4 firings, the rim becomes difficult to seat into a reloading shell holder due to the scratches in the extractor groove.  We'll see how these hold up over time.

[AZRedhawk44]

I've finished brass prep on all 500 cases and found weights all the way from 162.0 to 168.3 grains for empty cases.  A bit disappointed with the weight spread for the lot, but I am pleased with the quality of work/prep done by Remington on the primer pockets and flash holes.  All flash holes were round and matching diameter, needing no touch up.  All primers seated consistently just a few thousandths below flush with the case head.  Glad I didn't have to do any prep work on those areas.

Predominantly, the case weights seem to lie around 165.0 to 167.0.  I've got about 350 cases in this range, maybe 375.  I grouped them into 0.5gr lots.

I love being able to trim 500 cases in a little over an hour.  Awesome.

The Giraud seems to bog down a little bit on the nickel cases, where it has no problems at all with brass cases.  Glad I went with the Giraud instead of the Gracey trimmer, since the Gracey has a weaker motor and the cutter is only high carbon steel rather than carbide.

I've only loaded 100 cases so far.  I have about 100 more A-MAX bullets before I run out, but I ordered 750 more of them last week and they should arrive soon.  I'll finish the remainder through the rest of the week and I'll have match fodder to last me through the summer at 1 match a month.

I'm REALLY excited about this... I hadn't done good load development before and judging by my experiments above... the load I was shooting in matches was at best a 2MOA load.  I was holding the 9 ring (3MOA) on a 2MOA load.  Each X or 10 I scored was offset by the occasional 8 that just missed the 9 line.  Typical slow prone scores for me are 180-185 right now, with maybe 3 to 5 X's.

Now I have a 1/2 MOA load.  In theory, that "should" translate into a 1.5MOA score.  The 10 ring is 2MOA across.  


ETA:  My slow prone is my best score on average.  I am "just about" as good on rapid prone though the scoring rings are a bit bigger for rapid prone.  My seated, I tend to average about 80-85 and my standing is awful... about 70-75.  I'm about a 400/500 shooter, give or take a few points one way or another, from my last match.  I've made improvements to my seated position since last match (my weakness for that is technique, not ammo quality) and I still need to work on standing and find a way to hold that stinking front sight still and on target without a sling.

I'm hoping on this match to hit 430/500, with at least 10 X's.

[bedlamite]

Don't know if it matters now, but Brassmanbrass.com has once fired LC brass 308 for $180 per 1000

[AZRedhawk44]

Don't know if it matters now, but Brassmanbrass.com has once fired LC brass 308 for $180 per 1000

Yuck.  I've used that before.

It's belt-fed machine gun brass.  The head area is swelled due to the sloppy 7.62 NATO chamber and the rapid extraction.  My rifle has a match chamber with fairly tight tolerances.  I never got any of that stuff to resize properly, since I don't use small base dies.

I'd take LC brass that was used for M118LR ammo... but not just any old 7.62x51 lake city, any more.

The way things are, today, I've accepted the price involved in shooting new commercial brass.

[French G.]

I've got some good looking LC 7.62 brass if someone wants it. Not sure on the gun that fired it but due to its scrounged location I'd guess M-14(indoor navy range) Can't be sure. I have a lot of M118LR brass too that I converted into noise courtesy of said gov't who gave me the ammo.  Not selling the M118.

[Bogie]

I'm guessing you wouldn't want the hundred or so pieces of unfired but primed with Fed match Lapua .308 brass I have sitting - probably be overkill for an M14...
 
When evaluating loads, put out a line of wind flags (surveyor tape on a stick works fine...), at least 3-5 between you and the target. Watch them, and when you have a consistent condition, and only then, pull the trigger. Side-to-side error is shooter error and wind - vertical is your load. You want minimal vertical.
 

[AZRedhawk44]

Bogie:  Without knowing the primer used to prime them, probably not.  Do you know?  If not, I'd have to knock the unknown primer out and put in known primers.  All I have right now is CCI #34's which tend to ignite hot from what I hear, with harder cups than most stuff. 

If I were to put that brass to use, it would be in an F-class bolt gun (that I don't yet own).  Not sure if I want to go with a .308 to make my ammo purchases more consolidated, or if I want to go with a 6-6.5-7mm class gun.  I have an itch for a .280 Remington that I've been wanting to scratch for about 3-4 years now.  Been waiting until I can shoot service rifle competently enough to earn a little bit of respect, before buying yet another rifle.

PM me what you want for it.  I'm not likely to run Lapua brass in my M14 and I'd definitely want to run it in a bolt gun where I could neck-size-only the stuff when reloading it.

French G:  PM me with how many cases you have, and what you want for the LC stuff.  I'm willing to take a look at it... if it turns out to be a PITA to resize due to MG use would you be open to a return/refund?

[Bogie]

I'm 95% sure that the primers are Federal Match... I bought a few others, but the bulk of what I used were Fed Match...
 
(and the joke in the benchrest community is "What is the difference between the match primers and the standard primers? The box." - and those guys pretty much know what they're talking about...)

[French G.]

AZ, may have to wait on that brass. I know about where it is. That would be at the bottom of my tower of ammo cans in the storage room. I just stacked them up last week too...

I've been rubbing my M-1A lately, hoping to scam my way back to the fleet matches this year if my command has money. I have and old roofing tar bucket partially filled with dirt that is my go to target for getting a random urge to shoot something. It's about 150 yards and downhill, well plinked with .223 holes. I took a few offhand shots at it tonight with the M-1A and am reminded why mouseguns suck. I'm pretty sure I hit it the first two shots, my hold was good. Third shot I must have caught it low in the part filled with wet dirt. The whole bucket disappeared about 5 yards left behind a bush. Quite satisfying to know you shot something when you shoot it, not those neat little .22 holes.