Author Topic: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There  (Read 1030 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« on: January 21, 2011, 01:29:03 PM »
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110121/D9KSNGR00.html

I thought we had a thread about this, nearly a year ago.  I couldn't find it.  I remember reading about it back then.

Anyways....

Moscow has a closed system Mars Mission simulator with 6 people inside it right now.  They're about to "land" on Mars.
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MillCreek

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 02:03:43 PM »
Good for the Russians. I hope this generates data useful for the long-term exploration of space.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 02:11:07 PM »
Dump the Space Weapons treaty and an Orion could get us there, (and bring home a couple hundred tons of Mars rock) in about a week...
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mtnbkr

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 02:38:01 PM »
Dump the Space Weapons treaty and an Orion could get us there, (and bring home a couple hundred tons of Mars rock) in about a week...

What is Orion and what makes it so fast?

Chris

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 02:43:08 PM »
What is Orion and what makes it so fast?

Chris

Orion is the most awesome thing in the history of space-projects-that-never happened, contrived by men like Freeman Dyson, Werner von Braun, Stanislaw Ulam. Literally the best minds in America at the time. It was a serious NASA/Air Force project until it got axed by JFK. I had the privilege of discussing it with Freeman Dyson's son George.

...oh, what it is?

It is a spacecraft propelled by tactical nukes exploding behind it.
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makattak

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 02:53:33 PM »
Orion is the most awesome thing in the history of space-projects-that-never happened, contrived by men like Freeman Dyson, Werner von Braun, Stanislaw Ulam. Literally the best minds in America at the time. It was a serious NASA/Air Force project until it got axed by JFK. I had the privilege of discussing it with Freeman Dyson's son George.

...oh, what it is?

It is a spacecraft propelled by tactical nukes exploding behind it.

Soooo... was your first statement supposed to be sarcasm? Cause a spacecraft propelled by exploding nuclear weapons is SO the awesomest thing in the history of space-project-that-never-happened!

 :laugh:
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 03:28:44 PM »
What is Orion and what makes it so fast?

Chris

Read Larry Niven's "Footfall."

We (the humans) build an Orion-powered ship, underwater, in the Puget Sound near Bremerton in order to hide it from the elephant aliens that have conquered us... then we launch it and wipe out the entire west coast of Washington and engage in a space dogfight with the huffalump mothership that spans distances of several AU around the solar system.

I accept that it might be suitable for accelerating a ship once you have sufficient distance between the blast and the absorbing shield that catches the energy, but I don't accept that we humans have the engineering proficiency to LAUNCH something using nuclear fission explosions as the sole source of propulsion and have the ship survive.  Even if cost and materials provisioning was no object.

'Splode a nuke under a huge metal sheet attached to a ship, and I suspect the huge metal sheet will rumple and fail if it's too close.  Add in the resistance from the water on top of the spaceship during launch, and that energy seems more and more likely to drive straight through the metal and tear apart the blast shield.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

MicroBalrog

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 03:30:27 PM »
Note: it could actually be built. There was nothing unfeasible about it.

Did I mention that had it been built, using early 1960's technology, it'd be four times cheaper than current launch costs per pound?

I actually own some of the Aerospace Projects Review articles about it.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Simulated Mars Mission: Halfway There
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 05:54:34 PM »
Read Larry Niven's "Footfall."

We (the humans) build an Orion-powered ship, underwater, in the Puget Sound near Bremerton in order to hide it from the elephant aliens that have conquered us... then we launch it and wipe out the entire west coast of Washington and engage in a space dogfight with the huffalump mothership that spans distances of several AU around the solar system.

I accept that it might be suitable for accelerating a ship once you have sufficient distance between the blast and the absorbing shield that catches the energy, but I don't accept that we humans have the engineering proficiency to LAUNCH something using nuclear fission explosions as the sole source of propulsion and have the ship survive.  Even if cost and materials provisioning was no object.

'Splode a nuke under a huge metal sheet attached to a ship, and I suspect the huge metal sheet will rumple and fail if it's too close.  Add in the resistance from the water on top of the spaceship during launch, and that energy seems more and more likely to drive straight through the metal and tear apart the blast shield.

Actually, it was under a big tent or thin dome. We let the Fithp think it was a food storage/distribution depot by painting the "surrendered Fithp" symbol on it. (They communicated any mis-use would cause all so marked facilities to be lasered/KEW'd.) so we only misused it that one time.

To confuse the Fithp we engaged in a coordinated launch (with the Soviets) of all our remaining nuclear missiles, allowing the launch to happen amidst all the visual distractions and EMP.

Once in space it used Iowa class 16" naval guns and nuclear shells, and kamikaze space shuttles that used their heat shields to keep the lasers off of them, and small kamikaze fighter craft built around 16" naval guns. (there being no way to retrieve the smaller craft, or return the Space Shuttles, so far out of their usual orbital maneuvering envelope.)

And they also used bomb pumped X-ray lasers that would fire when the ship made maneuver pulses.

http://www.up-ship.com/apr/michael.htm

And as to the pusher plate crumpling, the specific impulse of a nuke is HUGE. The shield can be really really thick. The (real) engineers studying Orion thought of that. The main technical challenge was the shock absorber system.

If an Orion craft were assembled in orbit, by unmanned Orion cargo launches, then a more "delicate" Orion system that was to be manned would be more feasible. The biggest stresses on the system would be the sea or land launch when the first bombs would superheat the atmosphere underneath the craft. Once in space with only the bomb-mass and radiation to work with, it would have been much gentler.

The thrust/weight ratio was so huge for an Orion system, that the engineers were working on the FARM that would have gone inside the ship to feed the crew, and provide grazing space for the chickens and goats.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 05:59:10 PM by AJ Dual »
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