Author Topic: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War  (Read 5940 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« on: February 25, 2011, 10:50:14 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_world

... and the problem with this is... what? >:D


In all seriousness, this is a Democrat Governor trying to put a stall on a Tea Party legislature.  And the old-school GOP represents half of the conservatives in the legislature, while newer Tea Party conservatives represent the other half.

This is the 3-party system I've been wishing for.  The 3rd party that pushes back against the combined statism of the other two parties.

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TommyGunn

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 10:59:51 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_world

... and the problem with this is... what? >:D
In all seriousness, this is a Democrat Governor trying to put a stall on a Tea Party legislature.  And the old-school GOP represents half of the conservatives in the legislature, while newer Tea Party conservatives represent the other half.
I am constantly amazed that a group of people that want (A.) a smaller, less intrusive, more responsible government and (B.) a vast reduction in this country's incredibly unthinkably MASSIVE debt are almost constantly vilified and marginalized by some loony political elite.  Do they REALLY want us to believe that a 14 trillion dollar debt is sane? [tinfoil] ??? ;/

This is the 3-party system I've been wishing for.  The 3rd party that pushes back against the combined statism of the other two parties.

No, it doesn't.  It subtracts support from (usually) the strongest of the two parties and allows the statists an even surer victory.   "Third" parties don't become viable until one of the established parties goes belly-up, much like the extinction of the Whig party led way for the republicans, known today, more affectionatly, as the repukeagain party.  :angel:
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CSM Kersh

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 01:38:29 PM »
I am constantly amazed that a group of people that want (A.) a smaller, less intrusive, more responsible government and (B.) a vast reduction in this country's incredibly unthinkably MASSIVE debt are almost constantly vilified and marginalized by some loony political elite.  Do they REALLY want us to believe that a 14 trillion dollar debt is sane? [tinfoil] ??? ;/

No, it doesn't.  It subtracts support from (usually) the strongest of the two parties and allows the statists an even surer victory.[/i]     "Third" parties don't become viable until one of the established parties goes belly-up, much like the extinction of the Whig party led way for the republicans, known today, more affectionatly, as the repukeagain party.  :angel:

There was a time I'd have agreed with you, but that was before the Rs moved left.  Currently I profess to be a former Republican whose party deserted him, not the other way around.  Bush 43 started the Eco-crud with TARP and Obama has merely continued the pouring of trillions down the rat hole.  It some part has to go belly up, then goodbye to both the Ds and the Rs and hello Libertarian.
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Balog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 01:49:38 PM »
Based on the Depression, I'd say it'd be more like Helloooo Socialism. When people are starving they don't make rational decisions about how they got there. People follow the guy promising to give them food.
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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 02:42:57 PM »
A civil war doesn't mean it has to be violent.  To a democrat, any opposition to their legislative freight train is cause for a civil war.  You are to roll over and take it.  Now be quiet and get back in the food stamp line.
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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 03:33:46 PM »
Based on the Depression, I'd say it'd be more like Helloooo Socialism. When people are starving they don't make rational decisions about how they got there. People follow the guy promising to give them food.

^^^^ qft!
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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 03:35:44 PM »
A civil war doesn't mean it has to be violent.  To a democrat, any opposition to their legislative freight train is cause for a civil war.  You are to roll over and take it.  Now be quiet and get back in the food stamp line.

CSAD beat me, so this is a x3
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 08:38:58 PM »
Based on the Depression, I'd say it'd be more like Helloooo Socialism. When people are starving they don't make rational decisions about how they got there. People follow the guy promising to give them food.

So promise to give them food via the virtue of freedom and prosperity.

FREEDOM = PROSPERITY.

This should be our meme, and it is true.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 08:47:01 PM »
So promise to give them food via the virtue of freedom and prosperity.

FREEDOM = PROSPERITY.

This should be our meme, and it is true.

[nasal voice]But I want it nooooowwwww! I don't wanna have to work for 2 weeks before getting paid, gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme!!![/nasal voice]


The argument of freedom and prosperity versus welfare is condensed thus:

F&P: "Well give you the tools and opportunity to build yourself up over the course of a few months to a year to the point that you can make as much bread as you could ever want."

W: "Well give you a single loaf of bread right now, one every month there after, and you don't have to do anything."

Now, you're starving right now, which do you take?

We all know which is the better deal in the long run, doesn't mean it's the option taken by millions of people.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 09:25:24 PM by kgbsquirrel »

MicroBalrog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 09:05:59 PM »
If you seriously believe that, wouldn't it follow that freedom is impossible?



Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 09:07:08 PM »
  Bush 43 started the Eco-crud with TARP and Obama has merely continued the pouring of trillions down the rat hole. 

No, our economic troubles did not start with Bush. That view is just far too simplistic. He's to blame for what he, himself, did; not for the entire mess.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 09:08:54 PM »
If you seriously believe that, wouldn't it follow that freedom is impossible?

No, it just means that economic woes can make it difficult to preach boot-strapping.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 09:10:34 PM »
No, it just means that economic woes can make it difficult to preach boot-strapping.

Ya beat me to it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 09:25:57 PM by kgbsquirrel »

Balog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 09:17:24 PM »
If you seriously believe that, wouldn't it follow that freedom is impossible?

No, just that it can't compete with "Your kids won't starve" when that is a realistic and immediate scenario. Reality is a female dog like that.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 09:27:54 PM »
No, just that it can't compete with "Your kids won't starve" when that is a realistic and immediate scenario. Reality is a female dog like that.

1. Your kids will not starve. There is nothing realistic about the idea of a 1929-like scenario in modern America in the near future. Even a Russia-like default would not lead to that.

2. FDR ran on a campaign of cutting spending and reducing the size of the  Federal government, accusing Hoover of wasteful spending. During the depresson. He won. That he later did something entirely different is not consequential to our discussion.
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Balog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2011, 09:31:29 PM »
1. Your kids will not starve. There is nothing realistic about the idea of a 1929-like scenario in modern America in the near future. Even a Russia-like default would not lead to that.

Speaking as someone who has been working with a local group helping former professionals who are homeless, allow to say that you are full of s***. It's a nice theory, but it is already happening on a small scale. Hyperinflation or an economic collapse for a million different reasons would most definitely cause that to be a realistic situation.

Quote
]2. FDR ran on a campaign of cutting spending and reducing the size of the  Federal government, accusing Hoover of wasteful spending. During the depresson. He won.

His massive make work public projects kept getting him re-elected. Human nature doesn't change, and bread and circuses still work.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 09:40:05 PM »
Quote
Hyperinflation or an economic collapse for a million different reasons would most definitely cause that to be a realistic situation.

Let me elaborate:

Many of my relatives have experienced Russia's economic collapse in 1998. Which was an economic disaster. A friend of my father's, who owned a small company, went hundreds of thousands of dollars in the red because he had taken out semi-legit loans to buy government bonds, and the Russian government defaulted. He had to actually go into hiding at one point.

But there was not massed starvation in the 1929-vein. This was not because Russia is some magical country that wisely prevented such things. It was because the level of wealth in Russia - limited although it was to that of a modern country - was more than what had existed in America in 1929. In fact, economic growth everywhere has made practically any semi-modern country wealthier in real terms than America n 1929. And note that today, 12 years later, Russia  - although not wealthy on a European level - has recovered from its post-default crisis.

Understand, please, what I am saying. I am not saying people will not suffer. I am saying that the suffering will not be as apocalyptic as  foretold.

Quote
His massive make work public projects kept getting him re-elected. Human nature doesn't change, and bread and circuses still work.

Just frame your promotion of freedom as bread, circuses, and class warfare then.

Talk bout the multi-billion dollar megacompanies that benefit from big government.

Talk about the highly-overpaid government officials that make decisions for poor people on their behalf.

Talk about cutting the price of gas, for instance. That's always a winner.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2011, 10:10:10 PM »
1. Your kids will not starve. There is nothing realistic about the idea of a 1929-like scenario in modern America in the near future.

Last I checked (a couple weeks ago) we're more prone to such a problem.  We had a four-day freeze, and every single store in town was out of bread.  Other prepared foods were selling out quickly too.  No shortage of ingredients; I ate better breads than normal fresh from the oven for a week, while most people went without because they lack the basic skills that would have allowed them to make their own bread in less time than they spent driving to all the stores at 5-10MPH.

As soon as the canned goods and TV dinners run out, a lot of people really will be going hungry.

I guess I should get a bigger oven; I had someone offer $5 for a 9" loaf during that run, so I could make a nice profit until the flour runs out.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 01:06:07 AM »
they lack the basic skills


bingo!
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 10:23:23 AM »
Quote
I am constantly amazed that a group of people that want (A.) a smaller, less intrusive, more responsible government and (B.) a vast reduction in this country's incredibly unthinkably MASSIVE debt are almost constantly vilified and marginalized by some loony political elite.  Do they REALLY want us to believe that a 14 trillion dollar debt is sane?

Why are you amazed that people like the TEA party supporters are vilified? They are standing in the way of a select group of people having power.

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Tallpine

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Re: Montana Governor: Tea Party will cause Civil War
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »
Nope.

A war for independence maybe - but not a civil war  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin