Paraplegic faces jail in citizen’s arrest

[MechAg94]

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1328424

The language the beginning of the article requires some interpretation.  Basically, the guy's granddaughter apparently asked her granddad and partner for protection.  He decided to do a citizens arrest.  It sounds like he ended knocking the guy over the head with a baseball bat.  The guy is paralyzed and has limited use of his arms.  It appears that the local DA is proceeding with charges against the guy for assault or something like that. 

Honestly, I don't know if what the guy did was the best way to go about it, but I really doubt I would want to find him guilty of anything.  The molester should feel lucky he is still alive, IMO.

If any of you have seen other articles, please post.

[Hawkmoon]

If ALL the (alleged) molester did was laugh at him, he obviously had no reason to use the bat -- other than anger and frustration, which aren't sufficient justification. If the (alleged) molester threatened him or advanced towards him in a threatening way, then he would be justified.

I think the article left out the most critical portion of the narrative.

[gunsmith]

The paraplegic needed the bat to detain the child molester.
The prosecutor needs to be detained in a similar manner imho 

[Hawkmoon]

The paraplegic needed the bat to detain the child molester.
The prosecutor needs to be detained in a similar manner imho 

The problem is that laws governing citizen's arrest typically don't allow the arresting citizen to use force to detain the arrestee if he/she wants to leave.

[gunsmith]

The problem is that laws governing citizen's arrest typically don't allow the arresting citizen to use force to detain the arrestee if he/she wants to leave.

True enough unless you happen to witness a felony, which I guess didn't happen.
Still, how is a guy in a wheelchair supposed to detain him if the molester decides to leave?

Hopefully a Jury will let him go.

[vaskidmark]

As much as I detest child molesters, Mr. Wheelchair screwed this one big time.

Go take the kid to the cops, Child Protective Services, a Magistrate, and tell the story of what [allegedly] happened and let them proceed from there.  Apparently the story was believable because once the state police heard the story the [alleged] perp/perv was arrested.  There was no need/reason to make a citizen's arrest - other than emotion, pride and anger.

I don't see any reason to let "grandpa" off on the assault charges, but would prefer to see him do a combination of house arrest/community service rather than impose the burden of a parapalegic on the correctional system.

stay safe.

[HankB]

IF the person he detained actually was a child molester, I see no problem with the batter's actions. Rather than prosecution, he deserves an "Attaboy" - he did the right thing, using minimum necessary force to keep the perp there for police.

If the person he detained was not a child molester, he ought to face charges of assault and unlawful detention.

[MicroBalrog]

Is he a court and a prosecution and a jury all in one? Citizen's arrest is for suspects, not for convicts. If he has acted illegally, he's guilty. Next question.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if he had caught him that would be one thing.  the cops were on the way already he shoulda let them handle it.

[MechAg94]

I tend to agree with that.  There were better ways to handle it and it appears he was already working that process.

[Jamisjockey]

True enough unless you happen to witness a felony, which I guess didn't happen.Still, how is a guy in a wheelchair supposed to detain him if the molester decides to leave?

Hopefully a Jury will let him go.

Depends on the state.  In Taxachussets, anything more than a "Please" is probably considered assault and a hate crime.
Generally you're only allowed to truely intervene in a "free" state.

[T.O.M.]

Back when I was a prosecutor, I was brought a case for review.  Woman came home and found her boyfriend in bed with her 11 year old daughter doing thinsgs he shouldn't have been doing.  She went to the kitchen and came back with a frying pan.  He took several hits to the skull. I guess luck was on his side that day, as it was an anodized aluminum pan and not cast iron.  A slight concussion and some staples was what he got, as well as several Rape charges.  He insisted on filing charges against the mother for Felonious Assault (deadly weapon).  8 years later, and darned if I still can't find that file.   

(Before anyone flames me too badly, it's called prosecutorial discretion.  I knew no jury in that Central Ohio rural community would convict her, especially after he was convicted of the Rape charges.)

[Balog]

Chris: isn't stopping a felony considered grounds for using force? I'm confused why it wasn't justified...

[vaskidmark]

Wouldn't that be justified/excusable use of force to stop the commission of a felony?  But like many jurisdictions the charge ought to be brought to a Grand Jury so they can No Bill the matter, removing all doubt from everyone's mind how the community views momma's behavior as opposed to boyfriend's ways.

Catch someone in bed doing the deed with a minor and using an anodized frying pan would be one of the least nasty weapons I would bring back from the kitchen.

After exercising prosecutorial discretion you did attend the ceremony where she was given they keys to the city, right?

stay safe.

[T.O.M.]

Balog/skid:  In Ohio law, you are only entitled to use force/deadly force in response to a threat to yourself or another person, and you may only use the force necessary to stop the threat.  So, I guess in theory, you could say that the threat he caused didn't justify the use of deadly force.  And yes, I could have gotten the matter on the Grand Jury docket and had it "no billed," but frankly that was more work than I thoght the case deserved.  Forms to fill out, subpoenas to issue, witnesses to prepare...  All to much of a hassel when I knew the right thing and could make the call.

As for the ceremony...I toasted her from the privacy of my living room that night and slept very well...

P.S.  As for the choice of weapons, I think she could have achieved more stopping power if she had used the edge of the pan instead of the flat bottom.   

[RaspberrySurprise]

I imagine you can still attempt to press charges against someone even if their actions are legally justified. The result is that either the prosecutor tosses it or if it manages to make it to trial the jury doesn't convict.

I'm fairly positive she could have killed the man dead in Michigan. Fear of forcible sexual penetration is considered reason enough for use of deadly force and I doubt an adult having sex with an 11yr old girl could be considered anything but forcible.

As to gramps yeah he most likely did break the law but it's hard to feel bad for the guy be bludgeoned. I'd be concerned about what proof he had of wrongdoing before deciding to crack skulls though.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and say the guy probably was in interruptus once mom walked in and at that point the "threat" coulda been perceived as over. he wasn't too bright or he woulda been gone before she got back with frying pan

[Jamisjockey]

I imagine you can still attempt to press charges against someone even if their actions are legally justified. The result is that either the prosecutor tosses it or if it manages to make it to trial the jury doesn't convict.

I'm fairly positive she could have killed the man dead in Michigan. Fear of forcible sexual penetration is considered reason enough for use of deadly force and I doubt an adult having sex with an 11yr old girl could be considered anything but forcible.

As to gramps yeah he most likely did break the law but it's hard to feel bad for the guy be bludgeoned. I'd be concerned about what proof he had of wrongdoing before deciding to crack skulls though.

Here in Texas as well.  She'd probably be hailed as a hero.

[T.O.M.]

i'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and say the guy probably was in interruptus once mom walked in and at that point the "threat" coulda been perceived as over. he wasn't too bright or he woulda been gone before she got back with frying pan

Sorry. Mea Culpa.  One of the best parts of the story.  Mom comes home early.  Kicks off shoes at the door. Hears loud music upstairs.  Doesn't yell or anything.  Walks up.  Sees the act through the open door, and quietly goes to the kitchen for the pan.  First he knows of her presence is the first of 4-5 thumps on the noggin.  She stood over him, pan in hand, while waiting for the police to arrive. 

Imagine from his perspective.  "Life is good.  Ouch!  What the %*&^ was that?  Ouch!  Ouch! Ouch!  Baby, can I please put on my pants while we wait for the cops???"    It's not what you think."   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

video of that guy would be priceless.

yea  they always say something like "its not what you think"  wife one did that nonsense with me. "no? its not?  what were you doing under the blanket naked that i'm confused about?!"

[Hawkmoon]

As to gramps yeah he most likely did break the law but it's hard to feel bad for the guy be bludgeoned. I'd be concerned about what proof he had of wrongdoing before deciding to crack skulls though.

Unless, of course, the bludgeonee wasn't really a child molester at all.

[Chuck Dye]

My training in CA citizen's arrest, decades ago, said citizen's arrest powers differ from sworn  LEO arrest in only two respects:  The LEO may cite infractions, the unsworn may not, and the LEO gets a pass on a false arrest where the unsworn citizen faces the possibility of ruin in the civil court system (often even if they win.)

My instruction as an unsworn PD employee was DON'T unless instructed to by a supervisor.

[gunsmith]

I took a similar course in CA as an armed security guard, told it wasn't worth the trouble unless it was a violent felony and someones life was at stake, or maiming.

grandpa in wheelchair should have done some legal research, then he would have know to shut up until he had talked to his lawyer.