People on Terror Watch List Buy Guns

[Ben]

The part of this story that perked my interest was that one of the criteria for being on the watch list was the generic, "attending training camps". One might assume that just meant a camp in Pakistan. One might also assume, based on information we've all seen, that it could apply to the current broad meaning of "domestic militia groups". Since the list is secret, there's no way to know if it includes Hassad Abib who just got back from Al Queda training, or Joe Smith who just got back from an Appleseed shoot or Thunder Ranch.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/28/fbi-247-people-terro-watch-list-bought-guns-2010/

[AZRedhawk44]

If the terror watch list has 450,000 people like the article cites, then that's 1.5% of the American population.

We're almost reaching "threeper" levels of people that the government doesn't trust, for one reason or another.

If they have 450,000 names on that list, I guarantee you that many prominent gun rights advocates are on there, Tea Party founders, probably Fred from Appleseed and most of his original core of instructors, and probably 10% of arfcom and most other gun forums.  Probably most survivalist/prepper blog writers, too.

Edit:

If the terror watch list has 450,000 people like the article cites, then that's 1.5% of the American population.

Man, my math is off today.

450,000 out of 300,000,000 is not 1.5%.

It's 0.15%.

Less than 1 %.

But, it's still an entire freakin' town.

[230RN]

I don't know why we don't just take all those 450,000 people and put them in internment camps for the duration.  I mean, you know, it's not like it's unprecedented or anything.

[vaskidmark]

If I'm not on a list I demand to know the reason why!

stay safe.

[Perd Hapley]

If they have 450,000 names on that list, I guarantee you that many prominent gun rights advocates are on there, Tea Party founders, probably Fred from Appleseed and most of his original core of instructors, and probably 10% of arfcom and most other gun forums.  Probably most survivalist/prepper blog writers, too.

Ha-ha, suckas!  With a post count this high, I've just GOT to be on the list. I rock!

[Angel Eyes]

I don't know why we don't just take all those 450,000 people and put them in internment camps for the duration. 

I recognize your sarcasm, but the duration of what?

[lee n. field]

I recognize your sarcasm, but the duration of what?

The interminable emergency.

[Boomhauer]

I recognize your sarcasm, but the duration of what?

The War with Eurasia

[RevDisk]

Yea, Due Process is just such a drag, dude.  I'd honestly like to know how this Terror Watch list can legally be used for any infringement of civil liberties, as by definition they have committed no crimes.

[birdman]

Yea, Due Process is just such a drag, dude.  I'd honestly like to know how this Terror Watch list can legally be used for any infringement of civil liberties, as by definition they have committed no crimes.

And since you aren't allowed to know if you are on the list, you have no way to face your accuser, know what, or even if you are being accused of.  I think this is major bad unconstitutional...denying your second amendment rights by throwing out the 5th?  If such a law passed it would take about 5 seconds for the first lawsuit to be filed...just have to find someone who is on the list.

[RevDisk]

And since you aren't allowed to know if you are on the list, you have no way to face your accuser, know what, or even if you are being accused of.  I think this is major bad unconstitutional...denying your second amendment rights by throwing out the 5th?  If such a law passed it would take about 5 seconds for the first lawsuit to be filed...just have to find someone who is on the list.

Meh, you realize that you'd probably qualify for being on the terrorist list just by putting those words on the internet? 

Point of the "watch lists" is petty power, office politics empire building and to justify more of a budget.  Actually increasing security is most often by accident or coincidence. 

[RoadKingLarry]

If I'm not on a list I demand to know the reason why!

stay safe.

After your recent dealings with Authoritay you're probaly on the short list for a suite at Gitmo.

[Matthew Carberry]

After your recent dealings with Authoritay you're probaly on the short list for a suite at Gitmo.

Beach side or pool side?

[41magsnub]

But, it's still an entire freakin' town.

Town hell..  its half my state!

[MicroBalrog]

Yea, Due Process is just such a drag, dude.  I'd honestly like to know how this Terror Watch list can legally be used for any infringement of civil liberties, as by definition they have committed no crimes.

Isn't it all worth it  if it prevents another 9/11?

[kgbsquirrel]

Isn't it all worth it  if it prevents another 9/11?

I'll be the cold hearted SOB that comes right out and says it with absolutely no sugar coating.


No.

A thousand dead cops, children, women, men, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, soldiers, babies and "poor under-privileged oppressed minority sons who were turning their life around" are worth neither the outright destruction nor the gradual seeping erosion of the priceless individual liberties inherent to human existence that were once devoutly cherished and fiercely defended in this Union.

[brimic]

I'll be the cold hearted SOB that comes right out and says it with absolutely no sugar coating.


No.

A thousand dead cops, children, women, men, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, soldiers, babies and "poor under-privileged oppressed minority sons who were turning their life around" are worth neither the outright destruction nor the gradual seeping erosion of the priceless individual liberties inherent to human existence that were once devoutly cherished and fiercely defended in this Union.

I'll be the cold hearted SOB who nominates this for the post of hte day awardâ„¢

[RevDisk]

I'll be the cold hearted SOB that comes right out and says it with absolutely no sugar coating.


No.

A thousand dead cops, children, women, men, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, soldiers, babies and "poor under-privileged oppressed minority sons who were turning their life around" are worth neither the outright destruction nor the gradual seeping erosion of the priceless individual liberties inherent to human existence that were once devoutly cherished and fiercely defended in this Union.

I agree with this.   We are Americans.   Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute.    In dollars or lives.   Giving everything we are in tribute to a false sense of security is a worthless gesture at best.   A betrayal to our country.   Every politician who demands our freedom via blatantly unconstitutional means is no better, morally speaking, than the terrorists who wish to take it from us by violence.

[Boomhauer]

Every politician who demands our freedom via blatantly unconstitutional means is no better, morally speaking, than the terrorists who wish to take it from us by violence.

I'd argue that that politician is actually worse than the terrorist.

You KNOW the terrorist is looking to simply kill you. That politician, on the other hand, wants to turn you into a puppet, doing whatever the government says with total control over your life.

[230RN]

 MicroBalrog:

Isn't it all worth it  if it prevents another 9/11?

kgbsquirrel

I'll be the cold hearted SOB that comes right out and says it with absolutely no sugar coating.

No.

A thousand dead cops, children, women, men, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, soldiers, babies and "poor under-privileged oppressed minority sons who were turning their life around" are worth neither the outright destruction nor the gradual seeping erosion of the priceless individual liberties inherent to human existence that were once devoutly cherished and fiercely defended in this Union.

Terry jumps up and hollers "Hear, hear!"

RevDisk added:

I agree with this.   We are Americans.   Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute.    In dollars or lives.   Giving everything we are in tribute to a false sense of security is a worthless gesture at best.   A betrayal to our country.   Every politician who demands our freedom via blatantly unconstitutional means is no better, morally speaking, than the terrorists who wish to take it from us by violence.

Terry jumps up again: "Tie for quote of the day!"

This evanascent, fragile, "thing" called Freedom cannot be evaluated in terms of dollars or weighed in grams.   But it has enormous value.

A lot of people do not understand that. 

Terry, 230RN

[Perd Hapley]

I'd argue that that politician is actually worse than the terrorist.

You KNOW the terrorist is looking to simply kill you. That politician, on the other hand, wants to turn you into a puppet, doing whatever the government says with total control over your life.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C.S. Lewis

[MicroBalrog]

C. S. Lewis  was wrong.

The worst tyranny is that where the tyrant BOTH feels he's acting for self-interest AND serving a higher cause.

Teachers' unions are a prime example.

[birdman]

Meh, you realize that you'd probably qualify for being on the terrorist list just by putting those words on the internet?  . 

They need me too much to do that :).

[dogmush]

You can engineer just fine from the Gulag prison camp Civic Education Facility.  And you'd better, if you know what's good for you.

[Jamisjockey]

I am in the process of getting a Secret for my new job. Section 29 Question G bothered me.  The wording....Here...skip ahead to 29.
http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86.pdf
i've never been part of any groups, but I thought that one was troublesome. The rest of the questions ask about actual overthrow, or acts of terrorisim. G asks if you've just been part of a militia.  Huh.  What if your group fully believes in and supports constitution? (like Declaration Day's group).