Author Topic: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition  (Read 6035 times)

roo_ster

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Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« on: May 04, 2011, 10:14:25 AM »
http://richardsonblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/05/ruh-rohbad-typo-on-richardson-isd-certificate.html

A little girl competes in spelling bees far & wide through the county and comes out on top. 

Her reward is a nice printed certificate.  What could possibly go wrong?



Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 10:28:25 AM »
More and more I understand why Americans treated teachers as they did in the mid-19th century.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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makattak

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 10:45:24 AM »
More and more I understand why Americans treated teachers as they did in the mid-19th century.

As the historian here, can you explain how we did? I haven't the slightest idea.

My impression is they were respected but paid very little.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

HankB

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 10:46:25 AM »
I've read that students entering teacher's colleges have, on average, the lowest SAT scores of any field of study.

This has been lampooned on TV as well - I vaguely remember an episode of The Simpsons about the disaster that occured when students hid the teacher's copies of the textbooks. (Teacher's copies included the answers.)
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

makattak

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 10:50:11 AM »
I've read that students entering teacher's colleges have, on average, the lowest SAT scores of any field of study.

They do. It's education majors as a whole, though, not teacher's colleges solely.

And, because someone will get insulted, I'm not saying any individual teacher is stupid. I'm saying that, on average, elementary and secondary school teachers are less intelligent than people with any other sort of college degree.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MicroBalrog

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 10:58:36 AM »
As the historian here, can you explain how we did? I haven't the slightest idea.

My impression is they were respected but paid very little.

If I understand my history of American education correctly, in the 19th century teachers had not yet accumulated the 'cult of the expert' that they've got going today (this is the work of early 20th century progressivism). This meant that teachers were often seen as just a paid worker hired to pay/oversee the children. Many teachers, especially in remote communities, were just young individuals with a slightly-higher level of education than average for whom this job was only a stop over for bigger and better things.

I will endeavour  to post sources later today.
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roo_ster

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 11:26:15 AM »
My maternal grandmother graduated from HS at age 16.  She graduated from a 2-year teacher's college at age 18.  She then taught grades 1-8 in the proverbial one-room schoolhouse until she married in her 20s.  She was paid a salary and the local community kept up the school, provided fire wood for the iron stove, etc.  Until she had her stroke, I was always impressed with her mastery of English, logic, and such. 

Her father, my maternal great-grand father, had an eighth grade education.  He made his living running a grocery store and was on the school board.  I knew him only as a child, but I was told he was a pillar of the community, read non-fiction books on history, philosophy, etc. in addition to his Bible every day.

Both were plenty educated, but lacked formal credentials.  I think we now have many credentialed educators who are poorly educated.
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roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 11:51:11 AM »
how about a newspaper that printed out invoices with toatal instead of total?  a lot of invoices  years worth
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HankB

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 12:54:30 PM »
My maternal grandmother graduated from HS at age 16.  She graduated from a 2-year teacher's college at age 18.  . . . Her father, my maternal great-grand father, had an eighth grade education.  He made his living running a grocery store and was on the school board. 
Several generations ago, an eighth-grade graduation probably meant the person was better-educated than many - perhaps most - high school graduates today.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/1895finalexam.html
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 01:17:34 PM »
Several generations ago, an eighth-grade graduation probably meant the person was better-educated than many - perhaps most - high school graduates today.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/1895finalexam.html

not just in the usa either. mom went to highschool. was unusual for a girl in pre wwII japan. was only girl in family to do tht (outa 6 girls)
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

TechMan

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 02:04:05 PM »
I believe the Amish in Ohio still stop at the 8th grade level, so the kids can work in the fields full time.  The Amish are very business smart.
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Tallpine

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 02:09:07 PM »
IIRC, Laura Ingalls finished the then version of HS and immediately went to work as a teacher at about age 15.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

MechAg94

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 03:38:20 PM »
Several generations ago, an eighth-grade graduation probably meant the person was better-educated than many - perhaps most - high school graduates today.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/1895finalexam.html
Yeah, we left actual standards behind some time ago.  My mother said when she was in school, there were older kids in 6th grade and other key grades who couldn't pass and just stayed in school until they were old enough to leave school.  Now days, we just pass those kids on through regardless of what they actually know.  A high school diploma means a lot less than it once did.
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makattak

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 03:52:48 PM »
Yeah, we left actual standards behind some time ago.  My mother said when she was in school, there were older kids in 6th grade and other key grades who couldn't pass and just stayed in school until they were old enough to leave school.  Now days, we just pass those kids on through regardless of what they actually know.  A high school diploma means a lot less than it once did.

Yep. A high school diploma used to represent a lot of learning. It now represents the barest minimum of paying attention and showing up. In some cases, not even that.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

KD5NRH

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2011, 12:33:28 AM »

I checked Sunday evening; this sign is still in place:
http://kd5nrh.blogspot.com/2008/01/hukt-on-fonix.html

Locally, the city approved further negotiations regarding a contract with the Justice of the Peach for court services.  I don't know what the other fruits will have to do.

Boomhauer

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 01:05:08 AM »
Quote
It's education majors as a whole, though,

Majoring in "education" is becoming the 21st century version of cosmetologist/hairdresser. One of my cousins thinks she's going to get a job in a year when she graduates with her bachelor's degree. Despite completely ignoring reality (we have a glut of teachers in the area looking for jobs that don't exist, especially with the school systems reducing their teaching staffs, she thinks that she's going to walk right into a job. She's also near 30, and has been to college several times before but always dropping out due to partying being more important...

I'd MUCH rather have had teachers who knew what they were talking about. Math majors for teaching math. English majors for teaching English. History majors for teaching history. You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to figure out...but no, we get "education majors" because they are "certified" according to ridiculous state standards that are out of touch with reality...being a "teacher" is much more about bureaucracy than actually teaching these days.


Quote
Yeah, we left actual standards behind some time ago.  My mother said when she was in school, there were older kids in 6th grade and other key grades who couldn't pass and just stayed in school until they were old enough to leave school.  Now days, we just pass those kids on through regardless of what they actually know.  A high school diploma means a lot less than it once did.

My HS diploma is worth less than the toilet paper in my closet. We had plenty of students who weren't actually literate passed on so that the teachers wouldn't have to deal with them for another year. And when one of my sisters was in the 7th grade, she had a student in her class who was 17...he just kept failing, failing, and failing to move on to the next level. Freakin' pathetic.

School is now treated as government funded daycare. Discipline is absent. State education standards are a joke...when teachers do bother to teach, it's either teaching to the tests for standardized testing OR it's pushing a leftist agenda.

Thank God I was at least taught to read, because after elementary school I pretty much educated myself through reading.





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birdman

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 07:36:09 AM »
I've read that students entering teacher's colleges have, on average, the lowest SAT scores of any field of study.

This has been lampooned on TV as well - I vaguely remember an episode of The Simpsons about the disaster that occured when students hid the teacher's copies of the textbooks. (Teacher's copies included the answers.)

On jeopardy recently I saw HS chemistry teachers totally blank on a simple chemistry question.  I was sad.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 07:46:53 AM »
I've known a very few good teachers, they are extremely rare.
As a species I have little respect for them.

My kids eventually went to the same school I did. There was a handful of teachers still there that were new teachers when I went.
I had a few interesting encounters with a couple of them when they tried to pull the teacher/student thing on me.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 07:53:16 AM »
There is a VERY old saying: "Those who can ... do. Those who cannot ... teach."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 09:30:15 AM »
There is a VERY old saying: "Those who can ... do. Those who cannot ... teach."


and if they fail there they go into management/administration
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 10:59:08 AM »
I think the root of the education/teacher problem in the USA is that we have a socialist education system (where only a small proportion can opt-out).

We don't cry about the "laptop crisis" or the "HVAC crisis" and such.  But we do have an "education crisis" and "healthcare crisis," likely because the huge gov't involvement in them relative to other sectors.
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roo_ster

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Tallpine

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2011, 11:16:06 AM »

and if they fail there they go into management/administration

That explains a lot, actually  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Azrael256

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2011, 10:58:43 PM »
Ah, RISD...

I had a chemistry teacher with a PhD in chemistry.  I also had a physics teacher with a BS in Physical... education.  She taught the AP class.  She was lost without the answer key.  We found that out when a student tried to get her to work out a problem on the board.

Most of the teachers then had degrees in what they taught, but the "education degree" was starting to get warmed up.  And that chem teacher?  Run off.  Along with the CS teacher who got his PhD in CS and the history teacher who got his PhD in history.  And I don't mean "run off" to teach at a university or write books, but to Garland ISD (that's the next town over for those who don't know the Dallas area).

roo_ster

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2011, 10:10:22 AM »
Ah, RISD...

I had a chemistry teacher with a PhD in chemistry.  I also had a physics teacher with a BS in Physical... education.  She taught the AP class.  She was lost without the answer key.  We found that out when a student tried to get her to work out a problem on the board.

Most of the teachers then had degrees in what they taught, but the "education degree" was starting to get warmed up.  And that chem teacher?  Run off.  Along with the CS teacher who got his PhD in CS and the history teacher who got his PhD in history.  And I don't mean "run off" to teach at a university or write books, but to Garland ISD (that's the next town over for those who don't know the Dallas area).

Sounds about right.  You also see that sort of folks run off into charter schools or private schools.  My kids' school nabbed such a gal.

FTR:
RISD is right in the middle of the telecom/aerospace corridor.  Used to be a top-knotch district, what with all the pocket-protector parents pounding the table at BoT meetings, demanding excellence and in no way intimidated by the BoT or teachers.

We have seen an influx of illegal aliens & anchor babies that make of 1/2 the students, nowadays.  Since public school teachers "teach to the middle" and teach to the minimum-standard EOY state tests, RISD has been on a flight path to mediocrity.  Toss in the cultural indifference to education and the lack of English and the administration & teachers are not challenged as much. 

On the brighter side, there is an informal coalition of telecom/aero and Asian (oriental, Indian, ME) parents to wrest the focus back from spending all the time/$$$ getting the mouth-breathers to pass the state tests and to focus again on excellence.  None of our candidates have won, yet, but I think we have put the fear of God/Allah/Matrikas/Hachiman in the BoT, as the BoT has started to make noise about excellence and metrics other than the thrice-damned state test.
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Our Tax dollars at Work: Publik Skool Uhddition
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2011, 10:52:56 AM »
Educational failure is cultural suicide worse than any of the forms of cultural suicide discussed  by pundits of the left or right.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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