Author Topic: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!  (Read 6380 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« on: June 06, 2011, 11:47:05 AM »
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Could%20killing%20planet%20search%20time/4891461/story.html


I was wondering when someone who didn't love the smell of their own carbon excretions would go ahead and point this out.


Yes, the internet uses a LOT of power.  That "google" to find out what time the movie is playing, ends up using a HUGE amount of electricity.  Some server farms use more juice than a Boeing assembly plant full of cranes, lifts and welders.

I've always held that the so-called "green" movement to get away from paper and transition to e-commerce actually would cost more energy than the previous paper system.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 11:48:12 AM »
The so-called "green" movement to get away from paper and transition to e-commerce was probably just a way to put a green face on something people were going to do anyway.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 12:26:46 PM »
The *expletive deleted*ing commies won't be satisfied until they have stopped all real progress...

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Viking

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2011, 12:59:17 PM »
The *expletive deleted*ing commies won't be satisfied until they have stopped all real progress...


Wrong. They'll be happy when We are living in squalor in caves and mud huts, eating raw-whatever-we-can-scrape-from-the-earth, while They live in the highest luxury that would make today's standards seem petty...
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dogmush

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 01:25:46 PM »
Wait.

People still believe in Global Warming?  That crap's worse harder to kill then zombies.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 02:29:53 AM »
What caliber for global warming?

There are some real whackjobs out there. I didn't clcik the link but Drudge had a teaser about some climate change activist that wants to brand climate change deniers.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 11:25:20 PM »
Yes, the internet uses a LOT of power.  That "google" to find out what time the movie is playing, ends up using a HUGE amount of electricity.  Some server farms use more juice than a Boeing assembly plant full of cranes, lifts and welders.

I've always held that the so-called "green" movement to get away from paper and transition to e-commerce actually would cost more energy than the previous paper system.

So you can't get something for nothing, and entertainment and information still require power and resources, even if no trees are killed?
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De Selby

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 11:31:27 PM »
Wait.

People still believe in Global Warming?  That crap's worse harder to kill then zombies.

Don't the majority of climate scientist believe in global warming???  I'm not aware of any trend in the scientific community towards rejecting it.

Popularly, of course, it's clearly in dispute.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MechAg94

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 12:14:31 AM »
Don't the majority of climate scientist believe in global warming???  I'm not aware of any trend in the scientific community towards rejecting it.

Popularly, of course, it's clearly in dispute.
I believe people have shown that a majority of scientists never really "believed" in it in the first place; certainly not they way it has been portrayed.

On the other hand, since likely the vast majority of scientists actually studying the climate are getting funding to study "global warming" issues from govt or political sources, they are not likely to go public with any claims it doesn't exist.  At a minimum, they will say it needs further study and funding.  The political nature of this subject has tainted everything about it.
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De Selby

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 02:29:11 AM »
It seems to me that climate change denial is at least as politically motivated as green activism - but again, I have never seen a shred of evidence that climate specialists are anything but overwhelmingly in agreement that global warming is happening, and that humans cause it.

Maybe you think they're all wrong, but there is no competing group of scientists or competing body of research that compares in terms of peer acceptance.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 06:13:03 AM »
Quote
I have never seen a shred of evidence that climate specialists are anything but overwhelmingly in agreement that global warming is happening, and that humans cause it.

You ain't looking in the right place.

Being a global warming denier in some circles is similar to being the subject of a witch hunt.
 
Hell man, it isn't that we don't think that the climate is changing, its changed dozens of times over the history of the planet and will continue to change till the lights go out. We just don't think mans influence is what's driving it. And if the OMG global warming is going to kill us all crowd was serious about clamping down on carbon emmissions then it wouldn't make exemptions ofr the poor developing countries that need help getting their economies in the 21st century, like China.
One or two good volcanic eruption spews more crap into the air in a matter of days than man has done since the dawn of the industrial age.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MicroBalrog

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 07:37:10 AM »

Maybe you think they're all wrong, but there is no competing group of scientists or competing body of research that compares in terms of peer acceptance.

Clearly science is based on  a popular vote of all the scientists.
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De Selby

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 07:42:48 AM »
Clearly science is based on  a popular vote of all the scientists.

Ok, what's it based on if not consensus on the work???

How should we measure the worth of scientific publications if not the opinions of, well, other scientists?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ben

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 08:41:06 AM »
climate specialists are anything but overwhelmingly in agreement that global warming is happening, and that humans cause it.

FTFY. "Humans cause it" and the generally poor data associated with it is what's done "AGW" in. Most climatologists agree we seem to be entering a warming period (but we won't know for sure for oh, 10K years, when we begin to have a statistically significant historical data sample for climate vs weather). Many argue, and present good data, that humans may contribute to it. Generally only whack jobs like James Hansen insist it's human caused and human driven.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2011, 09:20:54 AM »
It seems to me that climate change denial is at least as politically motivated as green activism - but again, I have never seen a shred of evidence that climate specialists are anything but overwhelmingly in agreement that global warming is happening, and that humans cause it.

Maybe you think they're all wrong, but there is no competing group of scientists or competing body of research that compares in terms of peer acceptance.

And pro climate change is motivated by money.  You can't get multi million dollar grants to study polar ice caps or create hockey stick graphs by saying "yeah, we aren't really sure if the climate is changing or not".  Zomg! Teh Skie its falling!!! one1! is how you get scientific paydays.

http://blog.heritage.org/2008/12/11/scientists-make-their-anti-global-warming-case/

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6178&Method=Full&PageCall=&Title=NOAA%20Scientist%20Says%20%22Censorship%22%20Began%20About%20Four%20Years%20Ago%20&Cache=False

Disagree, be banned

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5664069/Polar-bear-expert-barred-by-global-warmists.html

And, of course, we have climategate.  Much of the scientific community based thier findings off the hockey stick graph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy

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"The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third-world countries in satisfaction of what is called, coyly, a ‘climate debt,’ because we’ve been burning CO2 and they haven’t and we’ve been screwing up the climate. We haven’t been screwing up the climate, but that’s the line

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lord-mockton-the-climate-change-treaty-is-a-communist-trojan-horse-2009-11#ixzz1OgrIpZpe

http://www.votecommunist.ca/2011/04/16/commentary-climate-change/

But hey, I'm sure you'll find a way to poopoo my counterargument. ;/
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grampster

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 10:20:23 AM »
I wonder how much coal and natural gas is used to create how much electricity to recycle?
Is it possible that recycling causes more "pollution" than not doing so?
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De Selby

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2011, 10:50:36 AM »
Jamis, I'm not sure how that is even a counter argument - you're claiming all the science is rigged.  I didn't comment on whether it was rigged - I pointed out (rightly, as far as I'm aware) that there is scientific consensus on human caused global warming.  

Maybe you don't accept it for other reasons, but certainly the academic consensus doesn't support rejecting the global warming theories.  
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2011, 10:53:48 AM »
FTFY. "Humans cause it" and the generally poor data associated with it is what's done "AGW" in. Most climatologists agree we seem to be entering a warming period (but we won't know for sure for oh, 10K years, when we begin to have a statistically significant historical data sample for climate vs weather). Many argue, and present good data, that humans may contribute to it. Generally only whack jobs like James Hansen insist it's human caused and human driven.

Again, my question is - why do the overwhelming majority of climate scientists think that the available data is significant and a basis for claiming that humans have caused global warming?

How come they haven't noticed that there's not enough data to make that conclusion?

It seems a bit conspiracy-theor-ish to claim that they're all bought to the point of academic dishonesty.  I'm not sure how you'd get nearly every expert in the field to go along with the same lie, with virtually no dissent.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

brimic

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 11:04:19 AM »
Quote
Again, my question is - why do the overwhelming majority of climate scientists think that the available data is significant and a basis for claiming that humans have caused global warming?

Simple.
1. There is a lot of money available (grants) to pay for academics to study global warming, there is little available to the dissenters.
2. Just about all climate researchers are on the public dole.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 11:08:26 AM by brimic »
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longeyes

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2011, 12:32:03 PM »
Wrong. They'll be happy when We are living in squalor in caves and mud huts, eating raw-whatever-we-can-scrape-from-the-earth, while They live in the highest luxury that would make today's standards seem petty...

We'll only have to go back to the Middle Ages to achieve that.  That was a good time to be alive--if you were a monarch, nobility, or a high-ranking prelate.   =D
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2011, 02:59:59 PM »
Jamis, I'm not sure how that is even a counter argument - you're claiming all the science is rigged.  I didn't comment on whether it was rigged - I pointed out (rightly, as far as I'm aware) that there is scientific consensus on human caused global warming.  

Maybe you don't accept it for other reasons, but certainly the academic consensus doesn't support rejecting the global warming theories.  


What I'm claiming is that a small group has rigged results, and that a larger group has latched onto those rigged results and run with it.  And when those results were discredited, the other "scientists" have just continued selling us a line of bullshit like nothing happened.  And, on top of that, the wealth redistribution bent of the Climate Change groups has become more and more vocal.
There is a lot of money at stake here.  Grants in the hundreds of millions.  Carbon credits.  Six figure government jobs.  Multi billion dollar government and UN contracts.  Add in a sprinkling of real honest to goodness Communists who know that by controlling us through environmentalisim, they can take our wealth and redistribute it to the poor and third world countries.
So yes, Virginia, there is a conspiracy.
JD

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Nick1911

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2011, 03:09:31 PM »
Holy dog *expletive deleted*it, I find myself in agreement with De Selby.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2011, 03:12:27 PM »
Ok, what's it based on if not consensus on the work???

How should we measure the worth of scientific publications if not the opinions of, well, other scientists?

Perhaps we should start with things like falsifiable predictions, a logically-consistent analysis, etc.

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grampster

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2011, 07:49:17 PM »
There can be no consensus in science.  In science, a thing either is or it isn't.  Planetary climate change is an historical fact.  It is.  Whether humanity has any major influence on that, well, it doesn't.  Most of the evidence that claims humanity is responsible has been shown to be mostly fraudulent.

Can some reasonable things be done to reduce the rather minor impact man has on his environment?  Well, we have done so.  More so in the USA than anywhere.  But the jury is still out on whether we should continue on the foolish path we've been on with regard to stultifying progress in all the ways that has caused man to slowly be able to live a life that is not rough, miserable and short.  The conversion of our surroundings in a thoughtful and careful way into energy is the lifeblood of a progressive life.

The fact that we have not exploited our domestic on and offshore resources in oil, gas and coal since the Arab Energy Embargo of 1974 so that we could have become independent of those resources from places that were one step above living in a cave and have a stone age, tribalist, misogynist, murderous religious expansionist culture has been the single greatest sin perpetrated on Western Civilization in general and America specifically by the political establishment and so called progressive movement.
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Tallpine

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Re: Greenies: zOMG teh Karbonz! Innernetz is bad!!eleventy1!
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2011, 08:08:09 PM »
Climate change I can believe.

The last four years in Montana seem to indicate that we are slipping into another ice age.
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