More outlawing male childhood

[makattak]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/29322200/detail.html

Five teenagers face felony charges after being arrested on suspicion of making and detonating up to 10 bombs in the backyard of a house in Snellville, Ga., about 25 miles (35km) east of Atlanta, WSB-TV reported Tuesday.

I understand that we can't have people setting off explosives in a town. I understand these boys need to be punished for that, but FELONY charges? Was anyone hurt? Was anyone in danger? Was any property damaged?

No? Then give the kids a talking to, give them a ticket for disturbing the peace or a noise violation or something of that nature. Tell them to take their fun outside of town.

A FELONY for teenagers screwing around like teenagers do?

(Also, I don't mind the parents getting cited for unruly behavior, that is well deserved. They have the responsibility to tell their teens not to do this in town.)

[cambeul41]

I can see scaring them with a THREAT of felony charges, then showing "mercy."

[dogmush]

When police went to the back yard, they found five teenagers, ranging in age from 16 to 19- years-old, setting off homemade bombs using water bottles, bathroom cleaning fluids and aluminum foil.

Much like "terrorisim" and "sex crime" the term "bomb" is being so abused as to lose all meaning.

The prosecuter would have a VERY hard time convincing me that these devices were in fact "destructive".

In fact, unless they rigged some kind of detonator it brobably wasn't an explosion, but rather gas pressure causeing the casing (water bottle) to fail.

[TechMan]

Sooo....dropping Mentos into Diet Coke is now considered possessing and manufacturing destructive devices, if you cap it so it will explode.  I know this was not what they were doing but it is along the same lines.

[Scout26]

Practicing chemistry without a license.

Take it out of town next time and wear eye-pro. 

Common sense is dead.

[AZRedhawk44]

Much like "terrorisim" and "sex crime" the term "bomb" is being so abused as to lose all meaning.

The prosecuter would have a VERY hard time convincing me that these devices were in fact "destructive".

In fact, unless they rigged some kind of detonator it brobably wasn't an explosion, but rather gas pressure causeing the casing (water bottle) to fail.

^^ This.

The parents would be well served to fight this on the basis that the amount of force a water bottle can retain before failure, indicates that the devices built by the kids is incapable of serving any kind of meaningful explosive purpose (demolitions, vehicle disablement, bodily dismemberment, etc).

And have a jury decide it.

[HankB]

Why don't they prosecute the retailers who sell bomb components like drain cleaner, plastic bottles, and aluminum foil? THEY'RE SUPPLYING TERRORISTS!

[dogmush]

^^ This.

The parents would be well served to fight this on the basis that the amount of force a water bottle can retain before failure, indicates that the devices built by the kids is incapable of serving any kind of meaningful explosive purpose (demolitions, vehicle disablement, bodily dismemberment, etc).

And have a jury decide it.

From GA Code, Title 16, section 16-7-80:

(4) 'Destructive device' means:

(A) Any explosive, incendiary, or over-pressure device or poison gas which has been configured as a bomb; a grenade; a rocket with a propellant charge of more than four ounces; a missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce; a poison gas; a mine; a Molotov cocktail; or any other device which is substantially similar to such devices;

(B) Any type of weapon by whatever name known which will or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, through a barrel which has a bore diameter of more than one-half inch in diameter; provided, however, that such term shall not include a pistol, rifle, or shotgun suitable for sporting or personal safety purposes or ammunition; a device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a weapon; a device which, although originally designed for use as a weapon, is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; or surplus military ordnance sold, loaned, or given by authority of the appropriate official of the United States Department of Defense;

(C) A weapon of mass destruction;

(D) A bacteriological weapon or biological weapon; or

(E) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as otherwise defined in this paragraph.

OK, over pressure device.....Same section:

(13) 'Over-pressure device' means a frangible container filled with an explosive gas or expanding gas which is designed or constructed so as to cause the container to break or fracture in a manner which is capable of causing death, bodily harm, or property damage.

Hmmmmm.....Property damage.

Also:

(15) 'Property' means any real or personal property of any kind including money, choses in action, and other similar interests in property.

I'd bet that if you taped a $20 bill over the lid of the water bottle before it blew up it would cause damage.  But I think I'd still fight it and let a jury decide.  It's stupid.

cambeul41 is probably right though, the state is going to let them consider the felony charge for a while and then offer to let them plead to a lesser one.  Or that's the plan anyway.  wonder how stubborn the parent's are?

[AJ Dual]

The police in my town come down hard on this as well.

If a sufficiently thick and symmetrical HDPE bottle is used, the resulting "pop" can be quite loud, we're talking about setting off car alarms 2-4 houses away in a suburban neighborhood with 1/2 acre lots...

The main issue here is one of prosecutorial discretion. Or a lack there of.

If kids were doing it just for the noise, that's one thing. If they're doing to cause vandalism or property damage, that's another. Then there's also the issue of what method they're using. Dry ice only really has the bursting danger. The lye and aluminum can spatter hot caustic chemicals in someone's face. Especially if the device is abandoned and someone else picks it up, not knowing what it is.

I've heard of at least one case where some teens gave such a bottle to a group of young kids, told them to "watch it fizz" and then left.

Our issue was one of a teenager setting them off on people's front porches or in alleyways. I actually manged to get him caught.

I saw the gaggle of teens on my corner as I drove off to get a take-out pizza. It wasn't unusual, I think they hung out there because we were still young 20-something DINK's at the time, and perhaps perceived as "cooler" than other families who may have been more nosy. What I failed to realize at the time was that it wasn't the group of "our teens" from the block.

When I returned only ten minutes later, I got the hairy eyeball from them. Now I know it was because they weren't expecting me back so quickly. About 20 minutes later I heard a huge bang that shook the house, louder than a 12ga going off, and found my enclosed front porch spattered with black lye and bits of foil, and a puddle of it on the floor.

When we called the police, they came quickly and interviewed me, where I learned they were hunting down this kid for leaving such bottle-bombs all over town. I remembered that as I drove off, (summertime, windows down) one of the teens burped loudly, the group laughed. The teenage girl who lived kitty-corner to us yelled out from her open window, "You should say excuse me!" and the teens laughed more. I sent the cops her way figuring she might know who the group was.

Apparently they were able to track him down through that. 

I fully admit to doing similar things as a teen, but I did it in an empty area, made the noise once, then skedaddled. Ten times in their back yard? They were asking for it. 

[makattak]

I fully admit to doing similar things as a teen, but I did it in an empty area, made the noise once, then skedaddled. Ten times in their back yard? They were asking for it. 

I was amongst a group that set off one of the two-liter bottle "bombs" as well. We did it in the woods, far away from people.

Now the punks you dealt with were engaged in criminal mischief. Leaving such a "bomb" for someone else to find is assault and should be treated harshly. This is why my statement was:

I understand that we can't have people setting off explosives in a town. I understand these boys need to be punished for that, but FELONY charges? Was anyone hurt? Was anyone in danger? Was any property damaged?

No? Then give the kids a talking to, give them a ticket for disturbing the peace or a noise violation or something of that nature. Tell them to take their fun outside of town.

They were stupid to have done it in town. So long as they didn't endanger anyone (by putting it on someone's porch, for instance), I don't see the need for felony charges.

[AJ Dual]

Yeah, I don't see felony charges either. I'd bet that as suggested above it's a scare the [blank] out of them gambit on the part of the PD and the DA.

However, ten times, in their own back yard... they were asking for it.

If they actually do get a felony charge all the way to court, and it's not plead down to some sort of misdemeanor, or even a ordinance violation/civil forfeiture of some kind, I'm trying to think up an analogy here...

It's like the cases where some guy gets caught up in some sort of horrible ATF railroad job, like the guy here in WI who had the malfunctioning Oly Arms AR15 that would go full-auto.

However, he knew about it for months, years maybe and didn't do anything. Loaned it to someone else with a "wink and a nod" as to what would make it go FA if you held it or shot it "just so". Was already on the fed.gov radar for various legal activities. And left the US Army under a cloud of suspicion over lots of missing equipment, or computer system misuse...

On one hand, you'd expect a just .gov to slap his wrist, and tell him to get the rifle repaired. Or maybe just confiscate and destroy it without any further legal woe to him. But when you look at the totality of his situation and all the other things he'd done to make himself a target, you just facepalm, and realize he worked pretty hard to get where he is too.

[vaskidmark]

Just to be the killjoy in the crowd -

There have been spates of these "devices" (usually 16/20 oz soda bottles) left on lawns/driveways and the property owners injured when picking them up caused the bottles to asplodify.  Between cuts from plastic shards and burns from caustic liquids some serious injuries were sustained.

I think there are better criminal charges than bomb-making and terroristic actvities that could be brought against the perpetrators.  But remember that these urban youth bible-study participants could wind up being stealth jihadists bent on taking out all the Crusader capitalists in the neighborhood, so it's better not to take any chances.

I put the blame squarely on those folks in the late '50's/early '60s who got all worked up about kids having fingers/hands blown off when playing with M-80s and other fireworks.  If today's yutes had free access to black powder to explode they would not need to play with dry ice and caustic chemicals.

stay safe.

[Jamisjockey]

We set up the Porta-tower at Laguna AAF to support the golden knights.  We'd mess with the Army MP's by setting off MRE bombs in the dirt.  We made some real nice loud ones, and they'd come poke around.  Did it to them a few times and they never figured it out. 

[AJ Dual]

We set up the Porta-tower at Laguna AAF to support the golden knights.  We'd mess with the Army MP's by setting off MRE bombs in the dirt.  We made some real nice loud ones, and they'd come poke around.  Did it to them a few times and they never figured it out. 

They'd never heard of MRE-bombs?

I mean, even people never in the .mil know about MRE-bombs... 

[Jamisjockey]

They'd never heard of MRE-bombs?

I mean, even people never in the .mil know about MRE-bombs... 

Oh, I'm sure they knew what they were.  But when they were making thier perimiter patrol and would hear a loud "bang!" they'd come investigate, and find nothing of interest.  Mostly because we'd hidden the evidience.  We made one that threw dirt about 20' in the air....that one was quite loud....they never saw us doing it, just heard the bang and came over to investigate.  They'd walk up the steps and we'd tell them we didn't hear squat....

[Hawkmoon]

They'd never heard of MRE-bombs?

I mean, even people never in the .mil know about MRE-bombs... 

I don't know about MRE bombs.

But I was in the Army pre-MREs.

[Jamie B]

[KD5NRH]

OK, over pressure device.....Same section:

(13) 'Over-pressure device' means a frangible container filled with an explosive gas or expanding gas which is designed or constructed so as to cause the container to break or fracture in a manner which is capable of causing death, bodily harm, or property damage.

Last I checked, "frangible" specifically refers to a brittle failure mode.  Plastic bottles are quite elastic.

[Jamisjockey]

I don't know about MRE bombs.

But I was in the Army pre-MREs.

I'll probably recieve a BATFEIO visit for this:
Modern MRE's come with a packet heater.  You are suppossed to put the entre pouch in it and add water. This causes a chemical reaction that causes heat which warms your entre.
If you take the heater and crush the contents, you can then pour that into a water bottle.  Add water, shake, cap, toss.  Effects similar to a dry ice bomb.

[CNYCacher]

I'll probably recieve a BATFEIO visit for this:
Modern MRE's come with a packet heater.  You are suppossed to put the entre pouch in it and add water. This causes a chemical reaction that causes heat which warms your entre.
If you take the heater and crush the contents, you can then pour that into a water bottle.  Add water, shake, cap, toss.  Effects similar to a dry ice bomb.

Except it is H₂ gas being released, instead of CO₂.  This means that the proper application of fire to an MRE bomb (or the proper application of an MRE bomb to a fire) can have much more interesting results.

[HankB]

There have been spates of these "devices" (usually 16/20 oz soda bottles) left on lawns/driveways and the property owners injured when picking them up caused the bottles to asplodify.  Between cuts from plastic shards and burns from caustic liquids some serious injuries were sustained.

In this case, there is no evidence that the individuals involved were doing anything that would endanger someone else's safety or property . . . I can't see punishing them because someone else might do something different.

[vaskidmark]

In this case, there is no evidence that the individuals involved were doing anything that would endanger someone else's safety or property . . . I can't see punishing them because someone else might do something different.

But the whole point of the laws, and the enhanced penalties, and the PSH behind it all is that someone, someday MIGHT].  It never mattered what you actually did.

Somebody please go into the archives and get a copy of the memo and give it to HankB.  My access was restricted again when I wanted to look up something about the Constitution.

stay safe.

[grampster]

Ever since the girly boys and manly girls from Harvard inter alia decided to invent Zero Tolerance because their scaredy cat personas no longer would allow them to grasp the notion of Common Sense, American authority has turned into
American Stupid.

[grislyatoms]

  oh for Pete's sake. Really? I guess I should never tell what I never did with model rocket engine igniters, gasoline and black powder. I never did that.

That other guy did that.

[AJ Dual]

I kind of think there still is a Darwin-like effect going on here.

The ones who are smart enough to get away with it, are also likely to be the ones smart enough to not hurt themselves or someone else.

The dumb ones who draw so much attention and get caught, have a much higher likelihood of hurting themselves or someone else.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, I always assumed there'd be police and court involvement if I ever got caught with some of my "experiments", so I planned and behaved accordingly.