Author Topic: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list  (Read 4242 times)

Monkeyleg

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Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« on: October 22, 2011, 05:24:14 PM »
I see that the WI attorney general (who received campaign contributions from our PAC) has released a list of states that WI will have reciprocity with. AL and FL, the two states from which I have permits, aren't on the list.

When I was working to help get the bill passed, it was written so that all issuing states would have reciprocity. Now the AJ and someone in the legislature have mucked it up.

I'm really, really steamed. If I want to go back to visit at Christmas, I can either get a Utah permit, not carry, carry illegally, or just not go.   [ar15] (This is my first time using this smilie, but it's appropriate).


zxcvbob

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2011, 07:50:11 PM »
I may need to take a road trip to WI in a couple of weeks, cuz I will be able to CCW and the natives won't have their permits yet.  >:D



I am disappoint that they are limiting the states that they recognize.  
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 07:58:16 PM by zxcvbob »
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lee n. field

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2011, 08:32:51 PM »
I see that the WI attorney general (who received campaign contributions from our PAC) has released a list of states that WI will have reciprocity with. AL and FL, the two states from which I have permits, aren't on the list.

And, from what I read, I can drive a few miles north, and be good to go in WI with my PA license.

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cosine

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2011, 10:12:35 PM »
What has me steamed is the amount of required (detailed) information of firearm safety training. I took an NRA Basic Pistol class last summer, and the completion certificates didn't come with all the information listed as required under No. 5 of "Training Requirements:" http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ConcealedCarry.asp

Now I have to try to contact the instructor and get the remainder of that information from him. I am NOT happy with the WI DOJ right now.  :mad:

I'm wondering if I should just apply for another state's concealed carry license and go that route instead.

Oh well. I suppose if could be worse, considering there are places with even more onerous training requirements than WI.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 10:20:17 PM by cosine »
Andy

AJ Dual

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2011, 10:18:57 PM »
As pissed as I am at VanHollen right now, I have to admit I can't argue with him as I'd like to.

In their zeal to make as de-fanged and open a training requirement, and reciprocity as wide as possible, the NRA and whoever else was helping with the drafting of the bill kind of messed up.

Especially on the reciprocity.

WI is going to use NICS. Not every state does in it's background check for CCW license issuance.

For instance on the background check requirements, the wording of the carry law states:

Quote
wi 165.25(12m) Rules regarding concealed weapons licenses. Promulgate by rule a list of states that issue a permit, license, approval, or other authorization to carry a concealed weapon if the permit, license, approval, or other authorization requires, or designates that the holder chose to submit to, a background search that is comparable to a background check as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (ac).

Quote
(9g) Background checks.
(a) The department shall conduct a background check regarding an applicant for a license using the following procedure:
1. The department shall create a confirmation number associated with the applicant.
2. The department shall conduct a criminal history record search and shall search its records and conduct a search in the national instant criminal background check system to determine whether the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal law; whether the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29; whether the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 2007 stats.; whether the applicant has been ordered not to possess a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 51.45 (13) (i) 1., 54.10 (3) (f) 1., or 55.12 (10) (a); whether the applicant is subject to an injunction under s. 813.12 or 813.122, or a tribal injunction, as defined in s. 813.12 (1) (e), issued by a court established by any federally recognized Wisconsin Indian tribe or band, except the Menominee Indian tribe of Wisconsin, that includes notice to the respondent that he or she is subject to the requirements and penalties under s. 941.29 and that has been filed with the circuit court under s. 806.247 (3); and whether the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 813.125 (4m); and to determine if the court has prohibited the applicant from possessing a dangerous weapon under s. 969.02 (3) (c) or 969.03 (1) (c) and if the applicant is prohibited from possessing a dangerous weapon as a condition of release under s. 969.01.

The more I read into this, the more I'm thinking the legislature screwed the pooch writing this, or screwed the pooch through inaction, by accepting the bill as the WI Legislative Bureau sent it to them.

I'm grudgingly being forced to admit to myself, VanHollen might actually be protecting CCW, by making the rules follow what the law actually states. If we simply accepted "any training", and reciprocity to all, we might be subject to lawsuits from anti-gun groups who could take the state to court over what the law actually says, and what came out of those decisions could easily be way worse than what VanHollen is laying down under DOJ rule-making.

You figure they could judge-shop, and find some of those absolute gems of judges that the unions got in the Madison area over the collective bargaining/budget bill fracas earlier this last spring...

I don't like it, but I'm not certain the blame lies with VanHollen. And there's similar issues with the training certificate signatures, and the live-fire portion he's accused of "adding".

And I'm now thinking that despite how fired up it got me, the NRA's open letter to VanHollen over the DOJ CCW rule-making was ill-informed and hasty at best, and deliberately disingenuous (to misdirect the pro-CCW/RKBA base, and play CYA) at worst. Five minutes review of the pertinent sections of the WI code would have told them that many.. some... (most?) of the accusations in the open letter weren't true.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 10:22:13 PM by AJ Dual »
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2011, 10:33:55 PM »
They didn't approve Alaska's CHP?  WTF?

We require 12 hours of training, including a range qual, and receive signed certificates from our instructors.

I'm looking at my background check records from the Dept. of Public Safety per May 25.

They ran my fingerprints through the FBI, state and local databases for my complete known criminal record.

And what's up with the AG's office not having an email address on their site?

  
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 10:39:11 PM by Matthew Carberry »
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Strings

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2011, 11:38:49 PM »
I'm just glad that any valid CCW permit is considered good for "proof of training". Just wish that out of state permits would work for us Wisconsinites in the interim...
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2011, 11:43:36 PM »
Quote
I'm just glad that any valid CCW permit is considered good for "proof of training". Just wish that out of state permits would work for us Wisconsinites in the interim...

FL non-resident permits require proof of training, so why aren't FL resident and non-resident permits allowed?

FL non-resident permits also require FBI fingerprint checks. You'd think that would be more than enough for background checks.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 11:56:24 PM by Monkeyleg »

Scout26

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 09:06:48 PM »
And, from what I read, I can drive a few miles north, and be good to go in WI with my PA license.



Yep, me too !!!

Road trip to AJ's !!  Drink his beer, eat his food and CCW while he fills out the forms..... :P
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Strings

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 10:32:24 AM »
Scout, we CAN hurt you... :P
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Monkeyleg

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 03:34:13 PM »
Well, it turns out I was being too hasty in getting mad, and Florida (as usual) took longer than they should to get their information to Wisconsin. I called the AJ's office, and the woman said they just received the information from FL. She said that Florida's background check requirements are much stricter than other states, what with fingerprint and FBI checks, so FL should be added to the list soon.

That's good news. Now I can come up and abuse AJ, too.

AJ Dual

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 04:27:01 PM »
Bring extra shoes.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 08:04:01 PM »
I was told AK hadn't responded yet, which I believe cause they are understaffed and only required to check once a year and the lady who cares isn't empowered to do the paperwork for reciprocity.

The lady also mentioned there might be an issue because AK doesn't run a NIC's check, just the full fingerprint check.

She said I should write a letter with AK's info so they can be more proactive on WI's end.

Still, no f-ing email?
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 10:42:46 PM »
Quote
The lady also mentioned there might be an issue because AK doesn't run a NIC's check, just the full fingerprint check.

If they're doing the FBI fingerprint check, then they have the same level of background check as FL which, according to the woman at the WI DOJ, was more than enough.  We'll see.

AJ Dual

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 08:34:49 AM »
My gun club is offering classes over the next five days for those who want to be able to apply first thing on Nov 1st. I signed up for Monday's.  =)
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Strings

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 04:35:35 AM »
AJ, I thought you had an out of state permit?
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What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

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AJ Dual

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Re: Wisconsin's CCW reciprocity list
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 11:04:42 AM »
AJ, I thought you had an out of state permit?

I never traveled enough to bother.

Hellinois to take the kids to Great America once every year or so, once for the museums. No carry there anyway.

And then once or twice to Minnesota to my sister's lake cabin.
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