Towns wants folk to file trip plans before heading out for a walk or bike ride

[just Warren]

Whaaaa?

I'm sure this is an infringement of something or other though that doesn't mean much these days. 

And if they want that why not go the whole way and put up a control tower? 

[Tallpine]

Some people should have to pass a test to leave city limits   

[dm1333]

 

in response to a "growing problem with road safety," reports Stevens Points Journal

While it turns out the town of Hull hasn't had a crash involving a bike or pedestrian since 2008, the community's chairman contends that bikers and runners take up too much of the road, leading to a rash of complaints from irritated drivers.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, irritated drivers who have to slow down for a few seconds in order to safely pass a cyclist who has as much right to be on that road as they do.  Oh, wait, I thought they were talking about California!   

[Jamisjockey]

Yeah we have a rural town that has been hitting cyclists with $240 fines for not stopping at stop signs. God forbid a 16mph weekend rider not unclip and put a foot down and signal before turning when there isn't another vehicle in sight....

[HankB]

Cyclists here in the Central Texas (Austin) area are nuts - weaving in & out of traffic, riding on highways that have NO shoulder, ignoring roads that do have a shoulder and riding in a traffic lane instead . . .

It doesn't matter what the motor vehicle code says, it doesn't matter who's at fault in a collision (usually the cyclist), it doesn't even matter who wins any subsequent lawsuit; when a cyclist tries to occupy the same place at the same time as a soccer mommy driving a Suburban at 60 MPH, the cyclist LOSES; the laws of physics trump the rules of the road.

And no amount of self-rightous indignation is going to change that.

(But requiring trip plans be filed for cyclists & pedestrians is beyond silly.)

[MrsSmith]

I can't remember the exact wording at the moment, but it states pretty clearly in the sailing Rules of Racing that even if you have right of way, if you do nothing to avoid a collision or other accident, you're as guilty as the person who did NOT have right of way. If you think about it, that's a pretty fitting way to look at life too.

But filing a trip plan before walking or riding a bike? Nope. Just wrong.

[zxcvbob]

Bicycle doesn't belong on the shoulder, the cyclist should be out in the lane like any other vehicle.  I usually ride about 2 feet from the right edge so cars don't have to move left so far to pass me, but I still have some room to maneuver if they crowd me.

The article says "groups of bicycles", runners, etc.  I wonder if they are just talking about organized events (races)?

[RoadKingLarry]

Yeah we have a rural town that has been hitting cyclists with $240 fines for not stopping at stop signs. God forbid a 16mph weekend rider not unclip and put a foot down and signal before turning when there isn't another vehicle in sight....

Bicyclists here worked very hard to make themselves subject tot he same privileges and rules as automobiles. Now they get their panties spandex shorts in a bunch when they are actually held to those rules.
Stop signs mean stop as do red lights. Don't matter a bit if there is no other traffic, sames as for the driver of a car.
I used to volunteer at a big charity bicycle ride and the crap I saw some of those idiots pull was downright dangerous. They were quick to remind you that they had the same rights on the road as cars but ignored traffic signs out of hand.
That attitude cost one of them his young life when he thought the 18 wheeler should get the hell out of his way after he (bike rider) blew through a stop sign.

[Jamisjockey]

Bicyclists here worked very hard to make themselves subject tot he same privileges and rules as automobiles. Now they get their panties spandex shorts in a bunch when they are actually held to those rules.
Stop signs mean stop as do red lights. Don't matter a bit if there is no other traffic, sames as for the driver of a car.
I used to volunteer at a big charity bicycle ride and the crap I saw some of those idiots pull was downright dangerous. They were quick to remind you that they had the same rights on the road as cars but ignored traffic signs out of hand.
That attitude cost one of them his young life when he thought the 18 wheeler should get the hell out of his way after he (bike rider) blew through a stop sign.

While I agree with you the law is the law, when there is absolutely no traffic I just don't see the benefit in bothering cyclists.  If they're creating a problem, then yes stick 'em with the ticket. 

[Brad Johnson]

While I agree with you the law is the law, when there is absolutely no traffic I just don't see the benefit in bothering cyclists.  If they're creating a problem, then yes stick 'em with the ticket. 

Can us cagers do the same?

Brad

[Jamisjockey]

Can us cagers do the same?

Brad

Do you ever roll through a stop?

[RoadKingLarry]

Do you ever roll through a stop?

Nope, and, I haven't gotten a traffic ticket/moving violation since Sept. 1981 either.

[MechAg94]

Hey, if we can change them all to yield signs when there is little traffic, sounds good to me. 

Sounds like this town needs bike lanes or more sidewalks. 

[Jamisjockey]

Hey, if we can change them all to yield signs when there is little traffic, sounds good to me. 

Sounds like this town needs bike lanes or more sidewalks. 

Bike lanes end up full of broken glass, parked cars, and potholes.  Sidewalks are no place for recreational cyclists.

Nope, and, I haven't gotten a traffic ticket/moving violation since Sept. 1981 either.

I see people do it all the time. 
And I'm not talking about cyclists blowing stop signs at 20 mph. 

I'm exiting stage right, as I expect the sanctomonious is going to get thick in this thread.

[gunsmith]

I was a bicycle messenger for a long time and also have been a taxi driver so I know both sides of the coin.
Sure,the law is the law-... but it makes life difficult for both drivers and cyclist. Lets say you have a few cyclist riding side by side which is perfectly legal in most states And there is no bike lane. The road goes up hill,when they come to a complete stop and put one foot on the ground then every car behind them will go as fast as a bike starting from zero and going up hill-meaning about 3mph and if they are young and strong they may get up to7. It makes more sense and is better for every car behind them if they ride as hard/fast as they could to build up speed and momentum so as not to keep the cars behind them.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cars do not see bikes unless they know to look out for them, time after time I see people turn without looking at the bike they just passed and cutting the biker off-a really nice girl I knew was killed by a careless jerk in precisely this way.                                                                                                                                                                    In my opinion there is no solution to the bike/car dilemma - the bike rights movement is a bunch of lefty control freak jerks that have no real experience behind either bike handlebars or steering wheels & drivers for the most part think bike riding is something kids do in playgrounds not realizing  that people need to get to work that way or they are at work ( messenger ) ... To many cyclist and drivers are complete morons. One solution I do think might work ( a little ) is to ban violent felons from getting drivers licenses - a guy I knew (  Chris Robertson ) was killed by a road rager truck driver who had done time for murder, the Judge/jury who had no clue about cycling wouldn't convict.  It sent a message to many many cyclist that you wont find justice in court & its kill or be killed if you get into a dispute with a driver.

We don't let felons own guns but we let them drive machines with that on average are involved with a lot more death.

[MechAg94]

I see cars roll through stop signs too, but that doesn't mean they can't get a ticket.  Would red light cameras work on cyclists?  I agree that bike lanes won't solve your problem.  You still have to obey traffic signs. 

I mentioned the sidewalks not for bicycles, but for walkers/joggers since they were also mentioned in the OP. 

BUT:  Don't worry Jamis, this town doesn't have its own police force so you can run stop signs with no problems.  I wonder if that is part of their problem.

[gunsmith]

Bike lanes end up full of broken glass, parked cars, and potholes.  Sidewalks are no place for recreational cyclists.

speaking as a professional cyclist for 20yrs I agree a million percent, I despise bike lanes-nothing but magnets for everything detrimental to biking safely & the only person riding on a sidewalk should be supervised 6 to 10 yr olds

[gunsmith]

I see cars roll through stop signs too, but that doesn't mean they can't get a ticket.  Would red light cameras work on cyclists?  I agree that bike lanes won't solve your problem.  You still have to obey traffic signs. 

I mentioned the sidewalks not for bicycles, but for walkers/joggers since they were also mentioned in the OP. 

BUT:  Don't worry Jamis, this town doesn't have its own police force so you can run stop signs with no problems.  I wonder if that is part of their problem.

I'm sure there is some type of LE presence State cops or county Sherrif - red light cameras won't do a thing-no way to really identfy due to no plates.

[MechAg94]

gunsmith, I know what you mean about forgetting bikes you just passed.  I have had to wait for cyclists and joggers to go by or cross the street before turning or pulling out.  There are kids riding bikes to school near around my neighborhood.  There is only so much defensive driving/cycling you can do.  On public roads, we really do depend on every driver to drive more or less safe and controlled.  It just doesn't work otherwise.  Riding bicycles, you are just really vulnerable.


Honestly, stupid drivers is one reason I doubt I would ever get a motorcycle or really consider riding a bicycle to work.  There just isn't a safe route on a cycle.  I am comfortable in my truck and I am comfortable most people will see me.  

[erictank]

Yeah we have a rural town that has been hitting cyclists with $240 fines for not stopping at stop signs. God forbid a 16mph weekend rider not unclip and put a foot down and signal before turning when there isn't another vehicle in sight....

Is that the fine for cars failing to stop there, and are cars getting ticketed in similar proportions?  Y'know, I find it hard to get worked up about the notion, myself.  If they (bicyclists) have as much right to the road as people in cars, and as much right to the lane as people in cars despite being utterly unable to occupy said lane without obstructing the flow of traffic, then they have the responsibility to obey the same traffic regulations as the people in cars too, nicht wahr? They should face the same risk of ticketingfor violations as a car driver at that intersection, IMO - they've literally ASKED to be treated the same, so they have no right to complain when they are.

And I say that as someone who used to ride.

Trip plans for bikers and pedestrians, however, are completely freaking stupid.

[KD5NRH]

meaning about 3mph and if they are young and strong they may get up to7.

HTFU, Pokey; if I can't climb at 8, I get off and walk.   

[KD5NRH]

It doesn't matter what the motor vehicle code says, it doesn't matter who's at fault in a collision (usually the cyclist), it doesn't even matter who wins any subsequent lawsuit; when a cyclist tries to occupy the same place at the same time as a soccer mommy driving a Suburban at 60 MPH, the cyclist LOSES; the laws of physics trump the rules of the road.

And no amount of self-rightous indignation is going to change that.

Then I guess we should prohibit small people from going out in public where they can be victimized by much bigger criminals, too.

[HankB]

Then I guess we should prohibit small people from going out in public where they can be victimized by much bigger criminals, too.

Small people have a right to go into biker bars and tell the customers they hate leather, chains, and motorcycles.

Women have a right to jog alone at night along skid row wearing just a bikini stuffed with $100 bills.

Having a right to do something doesn't make it smart to do so.

[De Selby]

People who can't be counted on to avoid bicycles and pedestrians should not be behind the wheel of a car.

Yes, there are lots of those people, but that's a problem with our licensing system and a cultural penchant for treating recklessness on the road less harshly than other types of lethal recklessness. 

Because of the way our economy is set up, it just isn't feasible to train every driver and certify that they're actually safe on the road.  My vote goes to better road engineering as a solution.

[KD5NRH]

Because of the way our economy is set up, it just isn't feasible to train every driver and certify that they're actually safe on the road.

And why not?  TX driver ed is 32 hours classroom and 20 hours behind the wheel.  That's as many hours as any of the Bondurant high-performance driving courses.  Just because the time is almost always used poorly doesn't mean it can't be done well if the curriculum is better designed.

Also, making it a lot easier to lose one's license for serious or repeated violations, and toughening up the requirements to get it back would help a lot.  Frankly, economic considerations can go out the window when it comes to pricing the course and testing to get one's license back after losing it to a demonstrated inability or refusal to drive safely.