Customer Stops Grocery Store Robbery By Shooting Suspect--In Milwaukee

[wmenorr67]

http://www.wisn.com/r/30338153/detail.html

All citizens have the right to use force when protecting themselves or others from great bodily harm -- something the district attorney will discuss with the customer about Wednesday.

Interesting to see based on what Monkeyleg and others have said about the DA.

Also Aldi was posted no firearms.

[Monkeyleg]

It was under DA Chisholm that Andres Vegas, the pizza delivery driver who shot armed robbers twice in six months in 2005 and 2006, was charged with carrying a concealed weapon in the second shooting. Chisholm backed off when the case went to trial, as he realized that the NRA was defending Vegas, and was going to the state supreme court if possible. The word was that the court was fed up with the legislature not dealing with the issue, and was going to strike down the law prohibiting CCW as unconstitutional the next time they heard a solid case.

[Jamie B]

Our local Aldi stores are not posted.

Two unarmed security guards? Must be a really bad area.

'Course an unarmed security guard is just another soft target for criminals.....

[zahc]

What are Wisconsin laws like regarding "no weapons" signs?

Do they have any legal bearing or is it just a "trespassing if caught and refuse to leave" situation?

[zxcvbob]

What are Wisconsin laws like regarding "no weapons" signs?

Do they have any legal bearing or is it just a "trespassing if caught and refuse to leave" situation?

As I understand it, you are "trespassing" if you are caught ignoring the sign.  Looks like civil infraction rather than a criminal matter -- like a parking ticket -- but the fine is pretty stiff ($1000)

Last time I was in eastern Wisconsin, I didn't see any "no guns" signs anywhere.  But that was in early November, when CCW was still new.  And I didn't go to Madison or Milwaukee.

[AJ Dual]

What are Wisconsin laws like regarding "no weapons" signs?

Do they have any legal bearing or is it just a "trespassing if caught and refuse to leave" situation?

A combination.

It's trespassing if caught and you refuse to leave, although it's nothing gun-specific. Same thing as no shirt, no shoes, no service, or walking around muttering obscenities while reeking of anchovy oil... being told/asked to leave, and refusing to do so.

The act of refusing to comply with a properly posted sign, (must be "visible" and at least 5x7" in size, and posted at all entrances open to the public) is a er... "class D forfeiture" (or similar verbiage) which is $1000 dollars. Although probably more like $1300 if you actually go to court, try to fight it, and lose in added court costs.

So that's kind of harsh, OTOH, it's just a forfeiture, not even a misdemeanor.

[zxcvbob]

Seriously?  Anchovy oil?   

[Monkeyleg]

Seriously?  Anchovy oil?   

That's only on the East Side of Milwaukee, where there's a heavy Italian population. In the rest of the state it's reeking of pickled pigs feet.

[zxcvbob]

That's only on the East Side of Milwaukee, where there's a heavy Italian population. In the rest of the state it's reeking of pickled pigs feet.

And pickled egg beer-farts 

[AJ Dual]

Seriously?  Anchovy oil?   

Okay... how about... like copper pennies held too long in a sweaty fist?

Better?

[cosine]

A combination.

It's trespassing if caught and you refuse to leave, although it's nothing gun-specific. Same thing as no shirt, no shoes, no service, or walking around muttering obscenities while reeking of anchovy oil... being told/asked to leave, and refusing to do so.

The act of refusing to comply with a properly posted sign, (must be "visible" and at least 5x7" in size, and posted at all entrances open to the public) is a er... "class D forfeiture" (or similar verbiage) which is $1000 dollars. Although probably more like $1300 if you actually go to court, try to fight it, and lose in added court costs.

So that's kind of harsh, OTOH, it's just a forfeiture, not even a misdemeanor.

The class category is Class B forfeiture, which in Wisconsin is up to $1000.

What isn't clear to me yet is if the sign indicates sufficient notification, so if one is caught carrying concealed in a posted establishment there's potential for a $1000 fine, or if one needs to be actively asked to to leave the establishment and only after subsequent refusal to do so does the Class B forfeiture come into play.

[Monkeyleg]

Well, Jeri Bonavia had to get her half-cent in on this story. I wonder why she was invited to comment?

It was a best-case scenario for gun-rights advocates who say such incidents will dissuade criminals from using guns. Critics of Wisconsin's new concealed carry law, however, say things could have easily gone worse.

"Obviously, we're glad things turned out the way they did," said Jeri Bonavia, of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort. "But we believe a robbery is bad enough and that adding this grocery store shoot'em-up just increases the risk there will be a bad outcome."

Uh, a robbery is bad enough. Having innocents get blown away is worse. Having the bad guys get shot is good. Letting the bad guys continue to put guns in peoples' faces increases the risk.

I thought she was smarter than that.

[geronimotwo]

something the district attorney will discuss with the customer about Wednesday.

would anyone here go to speak with the district attorney if they were not facing charges?  doesn't this leave her open to saying something incriminating, like "i wasn't sure if they meant to hurt anyone", etc?

[dogmush]

In this situation I probably would.  Just because she's not facing charges yet, doesn't mean she won't be later.  I would try very hard to not be antagonistic to the DA making that decision.  CCW is still very new in WI.  However at a minimum I would speak to a lawyer first and be VERY careful what I said, and if finances permitted, I'd hire and bring a lawyer with me to the meeting.

[Monkeyleg]

I'm pretty sure I'd beg or borrow money for an attorney to be present. I had one in Milwaukee I'd met with by phone, and carried his card. I still have to find one down here in AL.

BTW, AJ, that conversation about six or seven shots? The person questioning that was my obnoxious SIL, wife of youngest brother. See what I have to put up with?