Author Topic: whats the nyra position on this?  (Read 12246 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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whats the nyra position on this?
« on: February 15, 2012, 02:02:22 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/wusa-reporter-balks-after-backlash-over-teen-drinking-stories/2012/02/14/gIQAmE3tER_story.html

At first, the comments from viewers were just nasty. No problem. Andrea McCarren, a veteran TV reporter, could handle that.

But then the response to McCarren’s reports about underage drinking on WUSA (Channel 9) took a darker, more threatening turn. Specifically, her two teenage children were harassed at school by peers and on Facebook by “friends.”




The volume and intensity of the backlash became so overwhelming last week that Mc­Carren and WUSA decided on an extraordinary step: She would pull herself off the air and hand her latest teen-drinking story to her colleague, anchor Derek McGinty, to present her work Tuesday night.

“My kids were targeted,” Mc­Carren said. “That’s where I drew the line.”
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

dogmush

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 02:07:26 PM »
Lesson learned by teenagers here:

Bullying works.

If you say nasty things and threaten people who are doing their job, they'll give up and stop.

If you're going to take a week off of school because of a bully anyway, beat the hell out of them and take the suspension.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 02:14:37 PM »
If you're going to take a week off of school because of a bully anyway, beat the hell out of them and take the suspension.


i like the way you think, however you are much healthier psychologically than i am.
i would favor a week in the islands to recover and provide airtight alibi while nature took its course stateside
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Perd Hapley

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 02:22:45 PM »
Quote
McCarren sought the help of police after a malicious Facebook post asserted that a teen-drinking party was to take place at her house.

You know, I'm all for letting people live their lives as they see fit, but for people to drink teenagers just crosses a line.
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tokugawa

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 02:58:24 PM »
You know, I'm all for letting people live their lives as they see fit, but for people to drink teenagers just crosses a line.

It's not really a problem,  it just takes a really good blender, otherwise they get hung up in the straw.

Declaration Day

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 03:07:30 PM »
Use a wood chipper first, then a blender!

RevDisk

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 03:18:07 PM »

I'll admit that I drank underage in the Army. I would have been fairly angry if a local reporter did an "expose" on underage soldiers drinking. Was it illegal? Ayep. Was it thoroughly common knowledge by EVERY human being and ignored so long as it was on the down low? Ayep. If you stayed out of trouble and didn't do anything terribly stupid, no one cared.

Obviously, you shouldn't take out unhappiness on someone's kids. But did the reporter think folks would thank her? A lot of parents prefer to think of their own kids as ah... perhaps not innocent little angels, but "good kids". Being forced to acknowledge usually harmless but illegal activities of their kids doesn't tend to thrill most parents. Obviously, the guilty kids were not happy with being exposed and now a heightened level of attention. The kids that didn't drink will likely be treated as semi-guilty as well. All stores that sell alcohol, proper or improperly, will get the screws turned on them. Local cops will get a dressing down from the local politicians for not catching the situation before it hit the news. Bullies will learn that they can have an impact by harassing innocent folks. etc, etc

Few folks will see anything positive. MADD and other Prohibitionists, I suppose? So yea, I'd file it under "Sad but fully expected reaction".
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 03:33:48 PM »
Reporter does investiagation of illiagel activities and suffers because those who got caught are mad and retailiate?

How is this a teenager specific issue?

I feel bad for the reporters kids. I feel bad for the reporter, but I don't understand how pretty normal human behavior shocks anyone.

People got busted, and then they got mad at the person who busted them. Last I checked that was just one of the potential issues that good reporters have to deal with.

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roo_ster

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 04:05:41 PM »
Quote from: dogmush
If you're going to take a week off of school because of a bully anyway, beat the hell out of them and take the suspension.

dogmush has the right of it.   The only way to stop bullying it to make it too painful/costly to bully.  That means fighting back and hurting them.

I do find it hilarious that some local newstwit, who likely has reported on many other such picayune "outrages," gets owned by a bunch of teenagers.

Regards,

roo_ster

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HankB

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 04:22:15 PM »
First off, I'll say that if someone threatened actual violence, or committed an actual act of violence against the reporter, her family, or her property, that's a criminal act and should be handled as such.

On the other hand, if the "bullying" consisted of insults, name calling, or Facebook posts critical of the reporter or her family (as the examples quoted in the linked story did) . . . tough cookies. You said things OTHER people didn't like, so get off your high horse and deal with it when it comes back at you. (And as for other kids targeting your kids - what did you expect? You targeted them with your story!)
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vaskidmark

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 06:21:21 PM »
I am disappointed that she has decided to drop out of seeing the story to whatever conclusion had been planned.  I am disappointed that she is not allowing her children to pursue whatever actions are availanle to them through their schools.  I am disappointed that she is not pursuing legal action against those who have made criminal threats against her or her children.

But most of all I am disappointed that the community at large (DC Metro area and APS) seem willing to turn a blind eye to the very illegal and not-harmless actions of two distinct groups - those who sell alcohol illegally and those who purchase alcohol illegally.  My normally libertairian bent gets bent out of shape when behavior not only causes harm to others but causes harm to me.  And having to pay for the consequences of illegal teen drinking, be it increased health care costs, increased taxes for enforcement/prevention activities, or the added risk of physical injury all harm me.

Yes, in the grand view of all the world's ills underage drinking is probably low on the list of harms to me.  But it remains a harm to me and I do not like being harmed.  Those who would do nothing to prevent me from being harmed disappoint me.

stay safe.
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Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 06:45:05 PM »
The nyra is gonna get you! O take some threats real serious  pale kids from the burbs trying to flex gangsta are potentially dangerous. Need squashing
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 06:54:14 PM »
Use a wood chipper first, then a blender!

Let me be the first to ask: will it blend?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 07:34:18 PM »
Thoughts:

1. Bullying is bad.

2. Targeting people's family is bad.

3. Overzealous alarmist reporters are bad too.

Quote
And having to pay for the consequences of illegal teen drinking, be it increased health care costs,

This can apply to practically every human activity.
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vaskidmark

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 08:08:26 PM »
As best I can understand things, this reporter did not call down the wrath of officialdom on anybody.  While it appears she did name one liquor store I do not know if her information, without independent corroboration, can be used as evidence sufficient to either sustain a license revocation or criminal conviction.  I am not aware that she named specific children as illegal purchasers of alcohol.  If parents of students at the school(s) named believe their precious crotchfruit was liabled they may pursue relief action.  If they were merely upset that their crotchfruit might in fact be illegally purchasing alcohol then they can take whatever action they deem appropriate to determine if such was/is in fact the case.

However, the condoning of minor (in the grand scheme of life) infractions does bother me, as it calls into question the integrity of the person willing to condone that behavior.  I'd rather someone say that the behavior is inappropriate but that they do not see how they personally can be responsible for the behavior or the correction of the behavior.

If official officialdom wants to use her information as the basis for accumulating and aggregatinf enough evidence to do something official about/to the named liquor store or the kids who might be breaking any of a small number of laws, then let them.  In my world that's what I thought the taxpayers were paying for in the first place.  Also in my world causing public officials to actually do the job they are suppopsed to do is a good thing.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

RevDisk

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 08:13:14 PM »
But most of all I am disappointed that the community at large (DC Metro area and APS) seem willing to turn a blind eye to the very illegal and not-harmless actions of two distinct groups - those who sell alcohol illegally and those who purchase alcohol illegally.  My normally libertairian bent gets bent out of shape when behavior not only causes harm to others but causes harm to me.  And having to pay for the consequences of illegal teen drinking, be it increased health care costs, increased taxes for enforcement/prevention activities, or the added risk of physical injury all harm me.

I was one of those teen drinkers once. How, particularly, did I harm you?
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 08:34:32 PM »
Hey, I commited the crime of underage drinking myself.

Hell, my dad would have gotten in uber trouble because he was one of those parents that figure if I was going to drink with my friends, better to have it happening where he could keep an eye on things.

There was a bar that failed to check id, where all of the underage college students drank. I went there all the time. They finally got busted and started checking ids.
I didn't get mad at the bar, or the officials.
Fact of life, what they were doing was illegal, and they got caught.

If you have an issue with kids and businesses getting busted for underage drinking, then I think you need to adress the laws in question.

Being mad at people for doing their job (reporting, enforcing laws, whatever) is pointless.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 08:39:21 PM »
Quote
Being mad at people for doing their job (reporting, enforcing laws, whatever) is pointless.

Morality exists.

I think that drug laws (and certain other laws) are morally wrong. I've therefore chosen not to join law enforcement when the opportunity was offered to me (at the start of my mandatory military service I was offered to serve out my time as a policeman instead). Every person who joins law enforcement makes a moral choice when they sign up. And later on law enforcement officers make choices too - even when they do not legally have discretion, they can often look the other way on things, and many officers do.

Everybody is morally responsible for their own actions, even if they are just 'doing their job'.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 10:49:13 PM »
However, the condoning of minor (in the grand scheme of life) infractions does bother me, as it calls into question the integrity of the person willing to condone that behavior.  I'd rather someone say that the behavior is inappropriate but that they do not see how they personally can be responsible for the behavior or the correction of the behavior.

I condone the serving of alcohol to children and teenagers.  Moreover I (in a purely theoretical sense, as my own kids are probably too young for this to apply) regard serving alcohol to children and teens as a parental duty.  

There's alcohol in the world.  It feels good.  It often tastes good.  It has vast cultural significance, and it's fun to make and bottle and collect.  Appreciating its finer forms is a valuable social skill, in a variety of social strata.  And people who do appreciate it tend to want to enjoy it when they are using it.  

I don't know about you, but hanging on to the carpet for dear life because the world won't stop spinning, while covered in one's own vomit, is not my idea of an enjoyable experience.  However, to many of my peers, that scenario was what alcohol was about until their bodies started seriously rebelling as the thirtieth or so birthday loomed, or until they got into serious legal, medical, or other trouble because of it.  

Now why on earth would someone want to do that to themselves in the name of fun?  Oh, maybe because their first experiences with alcohol were with being lil' badass teens, breaking rules and being stupid, and being egged on by other kids who are either dumb or acting dumb because of the aforementioned rule-breaking teen badassery.  I think it's a great idea to make sure that the most likely way kids will experience alcohol is as a badass, peer-induced act of risk-taking and rule-breaking.  And then, just when they've really got the whole alcohol-is-funriskybadass! thing really entrenched, it become legal.  Right when they're often living on their own, for the first time.  Oh no, wait, not living on their own.  Almost invariably living with other 21-year-olds.  With cars and cash and their bodies and rights have finally caught up with their brains' convictions that they're invincible.  

Gee, I wonder why colleges have problems with binge drinking, and its attendant rapes, fatal car crashes, alcohol poisoning, and poor class attendance.  

Sorry, no.  I think parents have a moral duty to refuse to participate in such a stupid, misguided, dangerous law.  I think parents have a duty to teach their kids about alcohol.  And the best way to learn about a benign, socially acceptable and important mind-altering substance is by experiencing it.  

I'm told that my siblings and I, with the exception of the pre-term born one, tasted wine on our first sabbath.  Our first experiences with intoxication were all on passover, when we figured out, around the ages of eight or nine or ten, that if we wanted to be awake and still feeling ok by the time the fun part of the passover seder rolled around (which was, in our family, the songs, at the very, very end of the whole shindig), we should probably start mixing in the proffered grape juice long about the second of the four cups of wine that are a part of the seder.  Teenage boys experiment with getting drunk on purim, the holiday of drunkenness (for men, anyway).  Most of the realize that the smell of red wine vomit is pretty gross and tends to linger, and learned to moderate their consumption somewhat.  And they do this on a very publicly celebratory festival, with parents or teachers and the general community close at hand, generally doing a half-way decent job of keeping the rapes, fatal car crashes, alcohol poisoning, and poor school attendance the next day to a minimum.  Now, I personally think that the drinking in a Jewish community on Purim is a bit over the top, and in kind of poor taste, and a bit dangerous.  But it doesn't come close to the over-the-top poor taste and danger of your average frat party.  

There's a whole lot about Judaism that I positively loathe, but I find the approach to alcohol remarkably sensible. (With the notable exception of some hassidic sects that have incorporated too much of the Russian attitude towards vodka into their own micro-cultures.)  Having alcohol around from a young age doesn't guarantee that the kids won't turn into addicts and destroy their lives.  There's no power in the 'verse can do that.  And some cultures--Russian and Irish come to mind--there seems to be a level of nihilism and negativity associated with alcohol that can perhaps provide a push to negative use alcohol.  So it's not about just having alcohol around.  My parents--somehow, in the midst of some monumentally messed-up parenting tendencies--did a bunch of stuff right.  Letting alcohol be a positive thing, a celebratory thing, potentially a sacred thing--is right up there in the top twenty or so things my parents did right, thus the anecdotal experience to round out the common sense.  

So, I regard furnishing alcohol to minors as a sensible and advisable course of action.  And I regard it as my moral duty to be sensible when it comes to parenting one's children.  And my integrity is expressed by how well I balance my various moral duties and the practical exigencies of life.  

So there!  :P !

roo_ster

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 10:53:15 PM »
However, the condoning of minor (in the grand scheme of life) infractions does bother me, as it calls into question the integrity of the person willing to condone that behavior.  I'd rather someone say that the behavior is inappropriate but that they do not see how they personally can be responsible for the behavior or the correction of the behavior.

vaskidmark:

A couple points.

1. Law is not morality.  Were white folks who overlooked minor segregation infractions committed by negroes during segregation of questionable integrity? 

2. Officialdom no longer has the legitimacy, IMO, to set such standards for me and mine in such a manner that I will obey without question.  I may forbid those under my roof from particular actions, but I see zero moral weight or any integrity on the line with regard to most governmental prohibitions that are not related to preventing direct and measurable harm to some third party.
Regards,

roo_ster

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wmenorr67

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 01:32:02 AM »
Quote
So, I regard furnishing alcohol to minors as a sensible and advisable course of action.  And I regard it as my moral duty to be sensible when it comes to parenting one's children.  And my integrity is expressed by how well I balance my various moral duties and the practical exigencies of life.


Everything in these few sentences makes too much sense.  If every parent had this attitude about their children then this country would be in a much better place.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 02:17:08 AM »
Regarding whether or not teens should drink:
Bridgerunner pretty much nailed it. As I metioned my Dad provided the liquer for myself and best buds for our special get togethers. New Years, Holloween, end of school year burning of school work and what not where always proceded by figuring out what we wanted to drink and sending dad to the ABC store. Occasionally, he would see something that he thought was funny or he liked back in his drinking days and get it for us.
The night of our parties he absconded with car keys and went to bed early, though we were welcome to wake him up if something happened.
I still can't beleive he slept through Beanie barfing up carrots and vodka in the kitchen sink while me and Ashley laughed hystarically.
I will say that the only time the drinking got dangorous we were at a friends graduation party, and I wished it was a home were we could have woken up the parents for help.

I have never drank till I puked, I have never blacked out and I was always the one at parties or clubs that didn't do something stupid.

Regarding morals vs. law enforcement:
Yes, a person should always question orders and evaluate there validity on a moral compass before following through.
However, asking our LEO's to use their personal judgement on what to punish and what to disregard is a slippery slope and sets a bad precitdent. Why have the law if the people enforcing it are just supposed to look the other way?
The majority of the US voters wish to keep our drinking laws as they currently stand. That's how it works. If you (and obviously, micro, not you, since you are not a US Citizen) wish to change it then you need to go through the process of changing the laws and get people to agree.

Personally, I don't agree with some of the laws regarding who can and cannot consume alcohol, however it's not really high on my list of prioritys.
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wmenorr67

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 02:53:26 AM »
And now Oklahoma is looking to raise the age to buy tobacco products from 18 to 21.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 03:28:35 AM »
And now Oklahoma is looking to raise the age to buy tobacco products from 18 to 21.

Except that wouldn't apply to the Indian smoke shops. I'm not sure how that would work.
The US has too much of a puritanical view of alcohol. The drinking age was still 18 when I hit that age, not that I waited though. When I was 16-17 years old if the cops happened to catch you with beer underage the likely outcome was making you watch while they poured it out. Possibly a call to your parents and unless you were a danger to yourself and others or had been demonstrating a high level of stupidity you probably were told to go home. today that kids life would be screwed up for over legal issues.
I don't agree with the current drinking age.
I don't agree with the blanket .08% DUI standard.
I do however support extremely severe penalties for those that choose to get drunk or high or stoned and then cause problems.  Extremely severe as in death penalty for a drunk driver caused accident that kills someone else. A very good friend of mine has spent the last 35 years in a wheelchair because of a drunk driver. I would support that drunk driver being permanently medically paralyzed to match the injury they caused her.
Drunk, stoned? Negligent? - Take a life lose a life, take a limb lose a limb.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: whats the nyra position on this?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2012, 03:49:55 AM »
Quote
However, asking our LEO's to use their personal judgement on what to punish and what to disregard is a slippery slope and sets a bad precitdent

Every single person uses their personal judgement all the time.

Even if you choose to implement a zero tolerance policy to the letter because you're going by the book, you're still making a moral choice and are still morally responsible for it.

Of course, I have personally experienced the sort of attitude I'm talking about.

A few years ago (why, ten) I was dating my girlfriend of that time , and we were drinking beer (we were pre-18, so it was illegal). We were quite obviously not 'adults', either. And of course we consumed our beer in an el-cheapo store/diner in front of a police station.

A police officer came in, got whatever he was coming to the store for, and walked back to his cruiser. He saw us clear as day and just smiled at us and didn't say a word. This is reasonable law enforcement.

Israel also has a fine for crossing the street inappropriately - automatic for those who have an outstanding warning for a previous infraction. As you can imagine, I do. I've once been stopped by a police officer, who said, basically: "I see that you have a warning from two years ago, it's here in the computer. You just be careful from now on. Let's just say I didn't see you."

This is reasonable law enforcement.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 06:34:56 AM by MicroBalrog »
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner