How Far Will They Go?

[Jamie B]

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-monitored-muslim-students-over-northeast-201653480.html

NYPD monitored Muslim students all over Northeast

Detectives trawled Muslim student websites every day and, although professors and students had not been accused of any wrongdoing, their names were recorded in reports prepared for Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

This would be Bloomberg's ariplane-shooting elite police force.

Lord knows how many other folks right to privacy these clowns have violated.

Their justification seems to feed their own existence.

There is quite a bit more in the article, and they worked outside of NY.

I seem to remember Bloomie also justifying them working in foreign countries since the UN is quartered in NYC, and they needed to 'gather intelligence'.

[RoadKingLarry]

If you're not doing anything wrong you've got nothing to worry about, right?

[Jamisjockey]

Remember, the NYPD is pretty much a small army.  King Bloomberg acts like they are his own personal army and he is not subject to that pesky constitution and all that.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

are they breaking into these sites?  or just "listening"?

[Jamie B]

Remember, the NYPD is pretty much a small army.  King Bloomberg acts like they are his own personal army and he is not subject to that pesky constitution and all that.

Yea, I know - this is exactly the problem, in a nutshell.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

But another student, Ali Ahmed, whom the NYPD said appeared to be in charge of the trip, said he understood the police department's concern.

"I can't blame them for doing their job," Ahmed said. "There's lots of Muslims doing some bad things and it gives a bad name to all of us, so they have to take their due diligence."


what part of the constitution do folks imagines , and i stress imagine, is being violated?

[seeker_two]

In other words, they're being treated like average New Yorkers.... 

[De Selby]

But another student, Ali Ahmed, whom the NYPD said appeared to be in charge of the trip, said he understood the police department's concern.

"I can't blame them for doing their job," Ahmed said. "There's lots of Muslims doing some bad things and it gives a bad name to all of us, so they have to take their due diligence."


what part of the constitution do folks imagines , and i stress imagine, is being violated?

Equal protection - the constitution doesn't allow for police to create files on people solely because of their religion.   

Don't expect anything from Obama on this - he's too busy winning the war on terror to care.

[grampster]

Perhaps this is a classic example of what ultimately happens when citizens are disarmed by virtue of "gun control".

 Bloomberg works overtime trying to take away firearms.  Pro firearm folks point at that and warn about government zealots such as Bloomberg.  The media and sheep scoff.  Bloomberg fulfills the prophesy.

 


 

[HankB]

If NYPD is hacking domestic websites or reading private email without a warrant, stopping & searching cars without probable cause, doing warrantless "black bag" break-ins, or putting GPS trackers on private vehicles without a warrant, that's out of line and probably criminal.

If they're just keeping track of things using public information (i.e., monitoring websites, facebook, etc.) I don't see a problem; don't you think LEOs somewhere are looking at firearm forums looking to see if some idiot somewhere is advocating violent overthrow of the government, or violence against a public official?

Don't you think Klan or neo-Nazi websites are being monitored? Or should the police be (figuratively) blindfolded?

Equal protection - the constitution doesn't allow for police to create files on people solely because of their religion.

I don't even recall reading the term "files" in COTUS . . . is this one of the "auras" or "penumbras" that some people imagine emanates from that document?

[dogmush]

I mostly agree with Hank and CSD, compiling data using public sources doesn't strike me as too dangerous.  Multiple undercover ops with safehouses set up strikes me as both wasteful of taxpayer dollars and more sinister.

One caveat to that thought is this:  We have often decryed the militarization of police forces in this country.  More dangerous then a M2HB and a surplus M113 is a police force trained and running as an intelligence service.  Close attention must be payed to police forces so that they don't transition from the appropriate role of tracking criminals into spying on noncriminals "just in case".  This operation could very well cross that line.  If it does we need to stomp the NYPD hard.  We need our own NKVD even less then we needed Mr. Bush's KGB.

[Perd Hapley]

We need our own NKVD even less then we needed Mr. Bush's KGB.

Mr. Bush's KGB?

[Fitz]

So, police are *GASP* legally accessing publicly available information?


Wow. What jerks.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

and ironically the muslim kid i quoted "gets it"
and hes more typical than the "zomg" crowd

[dogmush]

Mr. Bush's KGB?

I'm less then pleased with the Department of Homeland Security.

[Perd Hapley]

I'm less then pleased with the Department of Homeland Security.

Oh.


I thought "keeping files" on people who were not actually the targets of an investigation for specific criminal acts was usually frowned upon. I don't know if it's legal. Hoover did it.

But the passage below makes it seem a little less sinister. It, supposedly, went on for only two years, after members of similar groups were arrested or convicted for terrorism.

Detectives trawled Muslim student websites every day and, although professors and students had not been accused of any wrongdoing, their names were recorded in reports prepared for Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

Asked about the monitoring, police spokesman Paul Browne provided a list of 12 people arrested or convicted on terrorism charges in the United States and abroad who had once been members of Muslim student associations, which the NYPD referred to as MSAs. Jesse Morton, who this month pleaded guilty to posting online threats against the creators of the animated TV show "South Park," had once tried to recruit followers at Stony Brook University on Long Island, Browne said.

"As a result, the NYPD deemed it prudent to get a better handle on what was occurring at MSAs," Browne said in an email. He said police monitored student websites and collected publicly available information, but did so only between 2006 and 2007.

 

[De Selby]

So, police are *GASP* legally accessing publicly available information?


Wow. What jerks.

That isn't the problem - monitoring a specific group and routinely reporting on them is quite different to random trawling.

As an example, if the police started monitoring APS and routinely briefed the ATF on its discussions, it'd be fair to question their use of state resources to target us.  Those are your dollars and mine paying for what they do; that means they're limited in how they use their time in a way that private citizens aren't.

Being named in police briefings this way creates all sorts of risks that people without one don't face - higher risk of arrest, higher risk of mistaken charges, higher risk of damage to reputation when the public finds out about them.   

If the police are going to place those risks on someone, they should have some basis other than religion (a constitutionally protected right) for doing so.

[Fitz]

That isn't the problem - monitoring a specific group and routinely reporting on them is quite different to random trawling.

As an example, if the police started monitoring APS and routinely briefed the ATF on its discussions, it'd be fair to question their use of state resources to target us.  Those are your dollars and mine paying for what they do; that means they're limited in how they use their time in a way that private citizens aren't.

Being named in police briefings this way creates all sorts of risks that people without one don't face - higher risk of arrest, higher risk of mistaken charges, higher risk of damage to reputation when the public finds out about them.   

If the police are going to place those risks on someone, they should have some basis other than religion (a constitutionally protected right) for doing so.

They did have another reason... they made legit arrests against members of the same groups.

Hence, the trawling for info is perfectly valid

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If the police are going to place those risks on someone, they should have some basis other than religion (a constitutionally protected right) for doing so.

yea  hence
Asked about the monitoring, police spokesman Paul Browne provided a list of 12 people arrested or convicted on terrorism charges in the United States and abroad who had once been members of Muslim student associations, which the NYPD referred to as MSAs. Jesse Morton, who this month pleaded guilty to posting online threats against the creators of the animated TV show "South Park," had once tried to recruit followers at Stony Brook University on Long Island, Browne said.

"As a result, the NYPD deemed it prudent to get a better handle on what was occurring at MSAs," Browne said in an email. He said police monitored student websites and collected publicly available information, but did so only between 2006 and 2007.

[De Selby]

Yeah, see the problem there?  Muslim perps having been members of the local Muslim associations isn't exactly cause for suspicion - again, that'd be like monitoring APS because Tim McVeigh went to gun shows, as did many other anti-government extremists.   Of course they did - they owned guns.  But that doesn't mean that owning a gun is a relevant connection to suspicious activity.

Likewise, being a Muslim (and hence joining probably the most common Muslim organisation for people of that age group) is not in itself a justification for being investigated. 

[Fitz]

Yeah, see the problem there?  Muslim perps having been members of the local Muslim associations isn't exactly cause for suspicion - again, that'd be like monitoring APS because Tim McVeigh went to gun shows, as did many other anti-government extremists.   Of course they did - they owned guns.  But that doesn't mean that owning a gun is a relevant connection to suspicious activity.

Likewise, being a Muslim (and hence joining probably the most common Muslim organisation for people of that age group) is not in itself a justification for being investigated. 

Nah... if there's a particular percentage of terrorists that are members of these organizations, I'd say they're worthy of some scrutiny.

Especially scrutiny of the "publically available" kind. It's not like they were hiding in the friggin attic taking tapes.

[HankB]

Yeah, see the problem there?  Muslim perps having been members of the local Muslim associations isn't exactly cause for suspicion - again, that'd be like monitoring APS because Tim McVeigh went to gun shows . . .

If people like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph had been active members of APS, I fully expect there would be some monitoring . . .

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

and my view of that would be similar to that of the kid i quoted