Author Topic: Another school shooting for national media attention.  (Read 7683 times)

BlueStarLizzard

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freakazoid

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 09:47:02 PM »
Never heard of the Bath school disaster until now. :'(
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 10:28:24 PM »
BSL, those links are both the same.....
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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 10:33:53 PM »
The reports I'm seeing trickle in suggest that the shooter was a "bullied outcast." Hardly surprising -- the Columbine shooters were social pariahs, too.

There is no question that it's a tragedy, but IMHO the school administration and faculty bear a major part of the responsibility. I say that as the adoptive father of a daughter who came to my home town and enrolled in the high school I attended -- and was so bullied and discriminated against in one semester that she had a nervous breakdown when it was time to go back in September. We enrolled her in a parochial school, and she was so traumatized that she lasted there only 3-1/2 days ... not because of anything at the new school but because of the effects of what happened at the public high school. As I sit here typing, my wife has our daughter in another country, trying to get her admitted to a private school that we're pretty certain won't tolerate bullying.

The issue at our local school was that, while they have rules against bullying, they aren't enforced. The kid said classmates in some of her classes stole things from her right in class and the teacher just ignored it. When we reported it and complained, the school said it couldn't have happened. The entire guidance staff and senior administration were in lock step -- they paid lip service to listening to our complaints, waited a couple of days while they "investigated," then they blew us off.

The reasoning is obvious: They don't want to acknowledge a problem, because if they admit there's a problem then they either have to deal with it, or admit that they don't know HOW to deal with it. It's much cleaner to just sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

Until one of the victims decides to act out ... violently. I don't think most kids are sociopaths. Any kid who brings a gun to school and starts shooting his classmates has probably been pushed over the edge. If the victim is a girl, most likely she'll commit suicide (as has been reported numerous times in the past few years). If the victim is a guy, he might commit suicide -- or he might commit suicide by cop.
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BlueStarLizzard

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GigaBuist

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 11:36:30 PM »
The issue at our local school was that, while they have rules against bullying, they aren't enforced. The kid said classmates in some of her classes stole things from her right in class and the teacher just ignored it. When we reported it and complained, the school said it couldn't have happened. The entire guidance staff and senior administration were in lock step -- they paid lip service to listening to our complaints, waited a couple of days while they "investigated," then they blew us off.

That's slightly better treatment than my parent's got when they complained.  They were told that I probably had done something to antagonize the bullies.  So, I had it coming.  

In what world does getting good grades and keeping to yourself warrant regular ass beatings and destruction of personal property?  Never could figure that one out.

There is a problem, but it's not with gun laws or anything in the regular adult world.  School administrators are going to have to be the ones to fix this, and there will always be severe outliers that nobody saw coming, but I doubt this is one of them.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 08:51:40 AM by GigaBuist »

Monkeyleg

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 11:54:10 PM »
In junior high and high school, I was always having to fight someone. There was always a bully waiting for me, somewhere. Of course, I wasn't the only target.

I can't recall a single time that any teachers or administrators stepped in to do anything. I can't recall anyone thinking that they should, and that includes parents. It's just the way it was. In talking with my brothers about this, it was the same when they were going through school in the 1950's.

The only time the vice principal ever paid any attention to me is when I became rebellious. He didn't know my name as an honor student. It was only when I started skipping school that he learned it.

When did administrators start caring about bullying?

TommyGunn

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 12:22:23 AM »
This is a sad and horrific situation .
I don't know what's happening in this country if the posts in this thread are to be believed (not that I'm doubting them).  When I was in school, back in the late '60s & early '70s, bullying was not only NOT tolerated, those edicts were STRICTLY ENFORCED.  I never crossed paths with a teacher or administrator who would ignore or condone any kind of bullying, tomfoolery, or jackassery of any description.  Now they weren't perfect and some crap did happen, but the miscreants who kept at it would eventually get unlucky and they'd get it -- even if the matter wound up being handled by police.
Now ... bullying is being ignored?  What is going on?   :'(
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 12:35:40 AM »
Tommygunn, I'm not saying the handling of bullying at the schools I went to was right or wrong, it's just the way it was. Sometimes it was right in the hallways (some pushing or punching, not an all-out fight). I even slammed some bully's head into a locker, right across from the principal's office. Nothing was said. Maybe it's because it was one of the few times I got the upper hand with a bully. ;)


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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 12:48:37 AM »
I wasn't refering to your post when I posted my comment, Monkeyleg.  Actually Hawkmoon's and GigaBuist's posts were primarily on my mind. 
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 01:29:08 AM »

When did administrators start caring about bullying?

When they started getting sued over it.
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seeker_two

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 05:51:16 AM »
When they started getting sued over it.

+1.....and school administrations began tying their teachers' hands on what discipline they could use.

They let the barbarians win....
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French G.

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 06:28:18 AM »
I heard on the radio yesterday some school administrator commenting that they had pre-existing procedures in place for parental notification, counseling and such in the event of such an event as this. Well how novel. How about a pre-existing procedure to shoot somebody in the head when they whip out a gun in the middle of a bunch of kids?
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seeker_two

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 07:27:18 AM »
How about a pre-existing procedure to shoot somebody in the head when they whip out a gun in the middle of a bunch of kids?

But.....that would damage their self-esteem.....
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Jamie B

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 07:46:29 AM »
School administrators are still in denial that bullying is a problem.
My kid's parochial school had a bullying speaker come in a year ago.
Programs for kids, and their parents.

There was never a huge problem, but it was there.
Nothing has changed, as the principal and teachers have not changed.

My son had a problem with a 2nd grade bully.
I told him if he was ever touched to keep punching until the perpetrator was on the ground.
I told the principal of my instructions, and he was fine - he is the epitome of non-engagement.
Typical bullshit of waiting for someone else to do something.
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HankB

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 08:32:57 AM »
Wonder if the perp was on Luvox, Ritalin, Prozac, or some other prescribed psycho drugs like so many of the previous school shooters . . .
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lee n. field

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 08:54:27 AM »
This is a sad and horrific situation .
I don't know what's happening in this country if the posts in this thread are to be believed (not that I'm doubting them).  When I was in school, back in the late '60s & early '70s, bullying was not only NOT tolerated, those edicts were STRICTLY ENFORCED.  I never crossed paths with a teacher or administrator who would ignore or condone any kind of bullying, tomfoolery, or jackassery of any description.  Now they weren't perfect and some crap did happen, but the miscreants who kept at it would eventually get unlucky and they'd get it -- even if the matter wound up being handled by police.
Now ... bullying is being ignored?  What is going on?   :'(

Wherever you were, it wasn't my school in that period.

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 09:46:43 AM »
Chardon is the township right above the township that I grew up in.  So sad.  My prayers to all those involved in this situation.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 11:06:03 AM »
The biggest issue is in the past the kid being bullied either eventually fought back, without weapons, or a older brother or cousin took care of the problem and everyone looked the other way.  Today if the bullied student fights back they are the ones in trouble and the bully gets off scott free.  That was the issue with my son and part of the reason why he is now in a private school.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 11:07:46 AM »
Wherever you were, it wasn't my school in that period.

It's amazing, how old rage wells up.

Westport, Connecticut.  At the time I was there the school system was very good.  I have absolutly no idea what it's like now.

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zahc

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 11:09:46 AM »
Quote
When we reported it and complained, the school said it couldn't have happened. The entire guidance staff and senior administration were in lock step -- they paid lip service to listening to our complaints, waited a couple of days while they "investigated," then they blew us off.

My sister was (emphasis on "was") a high-school math teacher and tells a very similar story. Any misbehavior that she reported up the chain, was denied. When the parents were called in to address some behavior problem (stealing, bullying, acting up in class), the administration sided with the parents that "their baby couldn't have done that" and the problem went away. She isn't a public school teacher any more.
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roo_ster

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 12:03:30 PM »
But.....that would damage their self-esteem medulla oblongata.....

Here ya go.
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T.O.M.

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 02:11:39 PM »
Not to hijack this thread, but I've been spending more and more time in juvenile court these days.  They've got the biggest case load in the county.  Anyways, I see kids whose parents don't give a crap about them.  Daddy's in jail for beating mommy (like the shooter in Chardon).  Mommy doesn't care about Junior unless he's in trouble and she has to take off work to come to court, and then we have the audacity to order that she take drug tests.  By the time you place the kid with a relative or in foster care, the damage has been done.  You hope the new place is better than the old one, and you hope counseling and a new home can make things better.  Looks like that's what tried with this T.J. Lane boy.  Too late.

It's oversimplistic to say "it's all because of bullying," just as it would be over simplistic to blame firearms, as they did after the Columbine shootings.  The abusive home, the bullying, etc., are all facets of this disaster-in-the making.  I've now read how it wouldn't have happened if they just put armed guards and metal detectors in all of the schools.  And maybe if school officials were monitoring all of the students's Facebook pages, they could have stopped it before it started.  And maybe if school officials had stopped the bullying, it wouldn't have happened.  One posting actually said that if the school principal had done his job right, gone to the boy's home and talked with him one-on-one a few times in private, he could have stopped all of this.  Yeah, what would we all say about a school principal showing up at the home of a young man or woman wanting to have a private conversation. 

I'm not lilke a lot of you. I don't hate on public education.  Sorry, I'm the son of two career educators, one a school principal.  Both in public schools.  I saw how hard my father worked to do everything that his job required, from investigating truancy issues, to handling child abuse situations, to managing the teachers and staff of the building.  And they keep dumping more and more on teachers and administrators because of the needs of the students, and budget cut-backs.  So, before we indict every public school administrator for this shooting, and the consequences of every bully in America, remember they aren't all gulity.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 03:13:50 PM »
Chris, I think you bring up a good point.

Every profession has it's problem children, but it seems that a few nessesary professions in our society that really get the short end of the stick.
You have the ones who don't care, who just want a paycheck, and the ones who have their heads up their asses and just don't get it.
Then you have a handful of good ones, who are overworked, overwelmed and just one more horror story away from getting burned out.

Teaching is definatly one of those professions, and it is really unfair for us to ask for these people to work miricles and blame them for tradgedies like this when we don't give them the tools they need to do their jobs, and tie their hands with crappy regulations which make them unable to do anything.
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seeker_two

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Re: Another school shooting for national media attention.
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 06:56:39 PM »
Teaching is definatly one of those professions, and it is really unfair for us to ask for these people to work miricles and blame them for tradgedies like this when we don't give them the tools they need to do their jobs, and tie their hands with crappy regulations which make them unable to do anything.

QFT.....
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