Fog Broom

[Ben]

A friend of mine whose father used to work for State of New Jersey found this sign while she was going through some of his things (he passed away a while back). Have any of you from NJ ever seen a fog broom in action?

[AJ Dual]

No,

But I read about that in Pop Sci or something similar.

They'd drive a truck around with a big grid of fishing line strings on it, and it would condense the fog out of the air, and increase visibility for a bit.

Kind of seems like it would be a sisyphean "beating back the tide with a spoon" sort of endeavor ultimately though. 

[Jocassee]

Old newspaper article about the NJ experiment.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19651201&id=X5EhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D5gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4863,345674

[K Frame]

I'm more interested in the story about dogs in combat in Vietnam...

[Nick1911]

I'm more interested in the story about dogs in combat in Vietnam...

I was laughing at the prices in the advertisement.  Back when money was worth something, apperently.

[41magsnub]

I was laughing at the prices in the advertisement.  Back when money was worth something, apperently.

My chuckle was the "007 aftershave"

[AJ Dual]

Late 60's through early 80's advertising is just amazing...

http://www.plaidstallions.com/fashion.html

[Perd Hapley]

Late 60's through early 80's advertising is just amazing...

http://www.plaidstallions.com/fashion.html

Thanks. Wifey-wife will love this. We might even wear matching dashikis whilst perusing it. (Try ditching THAT mental image!)

[birdman]

I was laughing at the prices in the advertisement.  Back when money was worth something, apperently.

Worth 90% it's weight in silver for the most part (coinage debasement only began earlier that year)

Makes me wish I could go back in time and park a few metric tons of quarters somewhere.

[drewtam]

Worth 90% it's weight in silver for the most part (coinage debasement only began earlier that year)

Makes me wish I could go back in time and park a few metric tons of quarters somewhere.

Only if you knew ahead of time to sell at the peak of the 1979 precious metal bubble. Otherwise, it would have been a bad investment, remaining flat (adjusted for inflation).

[birdman]

Only if you knew ahead of time to sell at the peak of the 1979 precious metal bubble. Otherwise, it would have been a bad investment, remaining flat (adjusted for inflation).

Hmm.  1964 coins. $1/0.715 oz, or $1.40/oz
Today ~$31/oz,
That's 4.5 doublings in 48 years, or 6.5% average APR.  since inflation averaged somewhere between 2-4%, that's 2.5-4.5% better than inflation over 48 years. 

Even if one had sold in the mid 80's when silver was about $3/oz, that's still better 0.5-1% better than inflation.

A metric ton of coins ($40,000 worth) would be worth $880,000 today.

I'd take a 40-50% APR of 2% better than inflation anyday.

Hell, the DJIA only did an average APR of 6.5% from 1964-2008, and less than 6% through today.

[drewtam]

Where are you getting your data?

When I did a commodity search, adjusted for inflation, it looked mostly flat.

Hmm.  1964 coins. $1/0.715 oz, or $1.40/oz
Today ~$31/oz,

Are you comparing purchase cost of coin at below commodity value? e.g. $0.05 Nickel is worth $0.XX in commodity nickel.

[AJ Dual]

Heck, a large stash of even "regular" non junk silver coins might have some value.

If there's hyperinflation, and a currency re-issue/revaluation, other .govs around the world to date just "promoted" the existing circulating coinage to the new value figuring nobody but the banks had enough on hand to really "get ahead" in that scenario.

Not a great strategy, but might be enough to get your family over the "hump" and keep you in groceries, assuming your job survives, and your salary is re-valued to a living wage in the new currency too.

[rcnixon]

I'm more interested in the story about dogs in combat in Vietnam...

I worked with a fellow once upon a time who was a dog handler in Viet Nam.  Sadly, the dogs led short, hard lives but they did save the lives of many GIs and Marines.  This guy had a a Lhasa Apso that was fully guard trained.  It would only take food or treats from him and was trained to move away from threats.  A good thing too since the dog only weighed about twelve pounds.

Russ

[rcnixon]

There is a book called "Flying Through Fire" that documents the RAF project to use enormous burners running on aviation gasoline outlining the runways of various bases throughout the UK during WWII.  The heat and convection served to evaporate and raise the fog sufficiently such that relatively safe landings could be made.  The burners were pressurized by pumping the fuel to them using stationary V-8 engines and the heat of the burners vaporized the fuel in the supply pipes, much like a Coleman stove.  The light produced also proved to be effective for the aircraft in distress to locate the airfield.  The amount of fuel used was profligate.

Russ
 

[MrsSmith]

I kind of chuckled at the typo in the article near bottom of page about storing natural gas underground. Apparently the prices of strong natural gas underground have gone up.

Yep. Nothing changed in print media. Mistakes in 1955, just like today.

[birdman]

Where are you getting your data?

When I did a commodity search, adjusted for inflation, it looked mostly flat.

Are you comparing purchase cost of coin at below commodity value? e.g. $0.05 Nickel is worth $0.XX in commodity nickel.

I am comparing purchase price of a quarter in 1964 ($0.25) to purchase price of a Pre-1965 quarter today (roughly $31 x 0.715/4)

DJIA data I got from their page.
Current commodity data from comex, 1980's data from historical charts.

Then I did the math.

[Fly320s]

 This guy had a a Lhasa Apso that was fully guard trained.  It would...move away from threats.

I didn't know Lhasa Apsos were French.


 

[never_retreat]

I from NJ and never saw that before, then again I'm not that old.

[BlueStarLizzard]

 Mike, I wrote a paper about the dogs of vietnam. There's some really good sites and books on the subject.

I worked with a fellow once upon a time who was a dog handler in Viet Nam.  Sadly, the dogs led short, hard lives but they did save the lives of many GIs and Marines.  This guy had a a Lhasa Apso that was fully guard trained.  It would only take food or treats from him and was trained to move away from threats.  A good thing too since the dog only weighed about twelve pounds.

Russ

Some of the storys are amazing. The saddest part is even the dogs shipped over from the states did not often make it home. They were euthinized because it was more cost effective.

[drewtam]

I am comparing purchase price of a quarter in 1964 ($0.25) to purchase price of a Pre-1965 quarter today (roughly $31 x 0.715/4)

DJIA data I got from their page.
Current commodity data from comex, 1980's data from historical charts.

Then I did the math.

Sorry birdman, I got tripped up on the timescale of the plots. It looks like most internet plots stop at 2006-2009. And the CME group doesn't make the historical prices available for free. You got a link to DJIA data? My google fu failed me.

Here is what I could find...



Looks like we are on the ramp down from a silver bubble. Which makes sense since we are also in the same spot of the gold bubble too.

1965 price - ~$1.75
2006 price - ~$12.50 (4.73% return over 41years)
2011 price - ~$37.50, very volatile, (6.66% return, proving silver is the mark of the devil)
2012 April price - $32.255 (6.20% return)

[I am using r=ln(F/I)/t]

At the peak of the bubble (2011 avg), a 7% return. Typical returns seem closer to 5%.

By comparison, a broad passive index fund should get 9% over the same period.
Investment grade corporate bonds are around 4% today, usually run higher.
High yield corps are at 7.4% today.


But I'm not a good saver/investor, so I'm sure I missed something.

[birdman]

There is really no way a passive ( weighted so APR is equal to percentage change in the index and not including purchase at the beginning with no turn-over) yields 9%, since the composition of the DJIA has changed--meaning active management (technically).  Since a "passive" fund as you describe is a share-price weighted fund, that only actively changes when the index composition changes, it achieves the 9% as you say, but that's a different path than buying something in 1964 and selling now--you are in effect changing what you buy over time and selling things.

What I meant in my comparison, was as if you purchased a "share" whose value was equal to the DJIA number in 1964, and an equivalent value of silver, you would achieve the returns I quoted.

"Passive" funds do better as the company-to-company weighting changes (meaning buying and selling) over the long term, which allows for a greater APR than the actual index change.

That being said, there is literally ZERO truly passive investments (including real estate) denominated in dollars, that beat the PM's over this particular 48yr timeframe.