Prosecutor rules out grand jury in Trayvon Martin case

[HankB]

. . . His defence, if he were to have one, would be in "exhausting every reasonable means of escape" or that he "indicated clearly" to Trayvon that he wanted to withdraw.  To prove either would require something as drastic as getting on his knees and begging for no more.

So the next time I think someone is following me, I'm free to clobber him . . . I'm sure that you'll come to my defense in court and explain to the judge and jury that I was justified since my pursuer didn't fall to his knees before me and beg for my mercy, right?

 

. . . Let's use a bar fight as a proxy example.  2 dudes down the pub get agro.  Fists fly.  One guy (Dude A, lets he's even say the "one that started it") manages to break free and goes outside.  He starts heading away from the bar and does nothing further to provoke Dude B (further provocation would mean things like yelling "fighting words" or threats to "get his boys" and come back).  After he gets a tenth or two of a mile away from the bar Dude B then pounces on him and starts wailing away . . .

Not a good example, since there's nothing in the public record yet that indicates Zimmerman & Martin had any interaction at all before Zimmerman claims he stopped following Martin and headed back to his car.

[roo_ster]

DS:

The use of force guidelines you have written, even assuming your course of events is the unvarnished truth, are at odds with those I have learned from the four states from which I have obtained CHLs.

Zimmerman or Martin, whoever threw the first blow, needed to reasonably believe they were in danger of physical harm before responding in force.  Being suspicious of someone being a thief would not cut it, neither would being angry at being followed be sufficient.

We do not yet have key evidence as to what occurred after Zimmerman left his auto and witnesses saw Martin smashing Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk.

One thing is clear, both Martin and Zimmerman used deadly force on the other: Zimmerman by shooting Martin and Martin by smashing Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk.

I think you have already decided what occurred, filling in the blanks with assumptions that suit your preconceived notions.  For my part, I don;t know and will have to wait to see what hard evidence is revealed.

[Fitz]

DS:

The use of force guidelines you have written, even assuming your course of events is the unvarnished truth, are at odds with those I have learned from the four states from which I have obtained CHLs.

Zimmerman or Martin, whoever threw the first blow, needed to reasonably believe they were in danger of physical harm before responding in force.  Being suspicious of someone being a thief would not cut it, neither would being angry at being followed be sufficient.

We do not yet have key evidence as to what occurred after Zimmerman left his auto and witnesses saw Martin smashing Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk.

One thing is clear, both Martin and Zimmerman used deadly force on the other: Zimmerman by shooting Martin and Martin by smashing Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk.

I think you have already decided what occurred, filling in the blanks with assumptions that suit your preconceived notions.  For my part, I don;t know and will have to wait to see what hard evidence is revealed.

Pretty much all of this.


My gut feeling is that this situation can be summed up thusly:

A catastrophic meeting of two idiots with more macho ego than common sense.

[Fitz]

Looks like the powers that be have decided to charge him:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

[makattak]

Looks like the powers that be have decided to charge him:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

Travesty.

[Jamie B]

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-charged-washington-post-184014387.html

"I know that many of you are greatly - and rightly - concerned about the recent shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a young man whose future has been lost to the ages," Holder said earlier in public remarks before the National Action Network, a civil rights group founded by the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Damn it!
Where is Zimmerman's presumption of innocence?
Where is due process for Zimmerman.
Where is a fair trial?
*expletive deleted*ck Eric Holder!

I have been quite tempered in not passing judgement on either side of this until facts are known.
There will never be a fair accounting of this entire situation, ever.

*expletive deleted*ck Eric holder for a lot of reasons, but especially this one.

[dogmush]

Travesty.

I'm not willing to go there, either.  It's possible that the prosecutor has facts that make this a good idea.  We've all spent a month saying we don't know, and we still don't.

What I'll say is this: I hope she does have enough evidence to convict Zimmerman. I think it'll be worse for the potential riots, Zimmerman, potential revamping of self defense laws and the justice system as a whole if she pushes this through and loses due to lack of real evidence (Looking at you Casey Anthony trial) then if they just publicly said "Hey, we don't have any evidence."

[Jamie B]

I'm not willing to go there, either.  It's possible that the prosecutor has facts that make this a good idea.  We've all spent a month saying we don't know, and we still don't.

What I'll say is this: I hope she does have enough evidence to convict Zimmerman. I think it'll be worse for the potential riots, Zimmerman, potential revamping of self defense laws and the justice system as a whole if she pushes this through and loses due to lack of real evidence (Looking at you Casey Anthony trial) then if they just publicly said "Hey, we don't have any evidence."

I worry more about a jury deciding his fate based upon fear of the masses rather than the amount of any 'evidence'.

Zimmerman is screwed no matter the outcome.....

[HankB]

Some reports say that there will be "more information" revealed . . . I sure hope so.

While I'm not going to condemn Zimmerman because of the shrill shrieks of the usual suspects bolstered by speculation and innuendo - not to mention threats of riots and worse - I'm not going to declare him innocent of criminal wrongdoing because of the false and malicious reporting we've seen.

We'll see what transpires.

[Perd Hapley]

Travesty.

Don't you want to know the charge(s) and the evidence before you say that? 

[Fitz]

Nah, why wait for facts?

Let's assume someone's shooting was justified because the shooter had a CHL

[Perd Hapley]

I'm not accusing Mak of that, either.

[Perd Hapley]

Murder 2.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Yup, looks like the prosecutor is going either for a home run or a plea bargain... Should be interesting...

[De Selby]

Roo ster, I don't think what I'm saying is at odds with the point you make - you can still be an aggressor even if the force used to respond is unreasonable, in which case both chased and chaser are in trouble.  That's yet another reason not to chase.

Hey, look, charges - I believe second degree murder was the very first law I cited when challenged to explain what law Zimmerman broke. 

[Chester32141]

There's no doubt that the charging of George Zimmerman was political.  If they had had a reason to charge him they would have done so before now.   The trial will probably not take place for about a year and I'm sure those in charge rightfully hope and believe that things will have calmed down by then.  They may even hope to outwait the current administration.  I'm sure they are aware that the president was looking to use this case as a way of ginning up support for his last election.  Is there bail for 2nd degree murder ?  We've all agreed that stupid should cost, feel kind of sorry for Zimmerman's wife.  I stopped feeling much sympathy for the Martin's when the photo of Trayvon at age 12 was all they had to show to the press.  Seems they knew a current photo of their son would hurt their case.  Wonder what else they know that they will never divulge.

 

[Boomhauer]

Well, the media did their damndest to influence this and get everybody stirred up...

Seems they knew a current photo of their son would hurt their case.  Wonder what else they know that they will never divulge.

You know, the family trademarked his name on March 21st . Now, if my son was shot, I don't think trademarking his name would be on my radar screen. A mountain of grief, desire for revenge, extreme sadness, yes. trademarking his name? I don't think so, buddy!

I'll say what I said on another forum about "parents" who care more about money than their children.

Lots of "parents" don't give a damn about their kids...they think of their kids are primarily a tax credit and leverage point to get mo' welfare money. Having to feed, house, clothe, and otherwise raise a kid is a chore to them. Public school is free daycare, not a way to get an education, hence these kids will be sent to school even ill. And these kids will never be punished by their parents for any wrongdoings, so the kid will grow up learning that force and violence gets you what you want.

These "parents" are the ones who will scream the loudest about how their little thugabee was just a choirboy on his way to church when he gets shot holding up a convenience store. If you think they care about their kid getting shot, think again. It just relieves them of a burden and gives them an opportunity to try to extort on a grand scale. They can always pop another kid out of their clown car, so it's no loss when one gets shot.


Go ahead and call me a liar. Or racist. I really don't care cause I've seen the above behavior more times than I really care to count.

[LadySmith]

You know, the family trademarked his name. Now, if my son was shot, I don't think trademarking his name would be on my radar screen, and certainly not less than a month before the body cooled. A mountain of grief, desire for revenge, extreme sadness, yes. trademarking his name? I don't think so, buddy!

I'll say what I said on another forum about "parents" who care more about money than their children.

Would it not prevent others from making money off their dead son's name?
Just wondering since there's no evidence of the family making any money that way yet.

[Fitz]

Since they are making no effort to stop the cash grab from all the merchandise being sold right now, I'm betting they quietly demand their cut later

[Boomhauer]

Would it not prevent others from making money off their dead son's name?

No. They trademarked it as "I AM TRAYVON" and "JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON" for use on "Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring TRAYVON MARTIN; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded DVDs, downloadable audio and video recordings, and CDs featuring and promoting TRAYVON MARTIN; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded video cassettes, digital video discs, digital versatile discs, downloadable audio and video recordings, DVDs, and high definition digital discs featuring TRAYVON MARTIN; Digital media, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring TRAYVON MARTIN; DVD cases; DVD sleeves; DVDs featuring TRAYVON MARTIN"

Others have TMd various combinations of his name for hoodies, a charitable organization, and Obama's quote "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin" as a slogan.

BTW, the "Justice For Trayvon Martin Foundation" was handled by the same attorney as the attorney on record as the one his family used to TM the name.

[Tallpine]

Well, I'm surprised.

I'll be even more surprised if they get a conviction.

[Boomhauer]

I'll be even more surprised if they get a conviction.

All depends on the jury and how Zimmerman's lawyers handle it (especially since his current ones punched out).

I don't hold out much faith for a decent jury. The media has very much tainted this case with their circus. Hope he gets a jury that remembers what their duty is vs. one that's comprised of morons easily swayed by public opinion.

[De Selby]

Would it not prevent others from making money off their dead son's name?
Just wondering since there's no evidence of the family making any money that way yet.

It's also for control - so people have a harder time using it for offensive purposes.

If others are making money off of this, I wouldn't necessarily begrudge them a cut.  It's not like they're going to get anything from a lawsuit for their pain.

[seeker_two]

Zimmerman will be the sacrifice made to keep the rabble peaceful...

.....I wonder if the MSM will ask Barabbas for a comment?......

[Perd Hapley]

Zimmerman will be the sacrifice made to keep the rabble peaceful...

.....I wonder if the MSM will ask Barabbas for a comment?......

   OK, Zimmerman is no Christ, but that is still awfully witty.