So superheroes are too unrealistic, but alien invasions are OK?

[T.O.M.]

Just caught this article over at Yahoo news...

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/pentagon-poo-pooed-avengers-teamup-163438080.html

Apparently, someone in the DOD decided that they didn't want to help with the Avengers movie because it was too unrealistic, but even Sec. Nav, is playing a role in the Battleship movie coming out this summer...

What I found telling was the stated reason why they refused to participate in the film... "We couldn't reconcile the unreality of this international organization and our place in it," Phil Strub, the Defense Department's Hollywood liaison, tells Danger Room. "To whom did S.H.I.E.L.D. answer? Did we work for S.H.I.E.L.D.? We hit that roadblock and decided we couldn't do anything" with the film."  So let's get this straight...they are okey dokey with superhero thing (Thor demi-god, Captain America being frozen in ice for 50 years, and turning into a green gient after exposure to gamma radiation), but they draw the line at S.H.I.E.L.D., a government secret agency with a flying aircraft carrier out to protect the world from super bad guys?

Something doesn't feel right about this one.  Maybe they don't like Josh Whedon, and hatoed Firefly (Blasphemy!), or maybe Marvel hit a little too close to home with something here...

Anyone care to guess?

[AJ Dual]

I'm thinking it's not how unrealistic the scenario is, more just random public affairs officers needing to say "yes/no" to justify their jobs.

Although more importantly, the .mil is always more interested, understandably so, in helping with movies that actually feature characters who are more or less regular soldiers, sailors, airmen etc. Even the Transformers franchise had actual human soldiers as characters with signficant screen time and plot points.

If the flic has just got troops running around in the background, I'm sure they're not as interested.

I haven't seen the Avengers yet, but I presume Thor, Iron Man, Capt. America, Hulk, and uh... arrow guy, and girl in the black jumpsuit with the guns get 99.9% of the screen time and lines.

[makattak]

I haven't seen the Avengers yet, but I presume Thor, Iron Man, Capt. America, Hulk, and uh... arrow guy, and girl in the black jumpsuit with the guns get 99.9% of the screen time and lines.

You are way off. You forgot about Nick Fury and Loki. Now 99.9% of the lines and sceen time is covered.

[T.O.M.]

Arrow guy?  That's Hawkeye, the best Avenger!   

Actually, as a kid, Hawkeye was always my favorite, because he was really a normal guy who made himself into a superhero through hard work and development of his skills.  Kind of gave me hope to become something even though I wasn't born that way...

Plus, at least in the comics, he was always a real smart-a$$.   

[Scout26]

DoD is always concerned about how they look to the public....bumbling and incompetent?  Then they won't let you play with their toys.   All kinds of sweetness and light and kicking alien/bad guy ass?  They're in.

[HankB]

Not hard to understand at all: the heros in Avengers are a bunch of folks that aren't in the military - contractors at most - whereas in Battleship it's the military that stars. (Who else has a battleship, at least in the movies?)

[RevDisk]

Not hard to understand at all: the heros in Avengers are a bunch of folks that aren't in the military - contractors at most - whereas in Battleship it's the military that stars. (Who else has a battleship, at least in the movies?)

Ayep. The Avengers saved the day, not the US military. US military had... maybe five seconds of screen time?  And needed five civilians to save the day, because the military couldn't hack it.

No surprise, and honestly, can't blame the military for saying "meh".  Battleship will either be epic, or epically horrible.

[makattak]

Battleship will either be epic, or epically horrible.

Both is an option...

[K Frame]

Back in the 1950s, when RKO was making The Day the Earth Stood Still, a pro forma request went in to the DoD for military participation in that movie.

The request was refused, in large part because the movie was seen as being too conciliatory and world peace and world government oriented, and the military at that time wanted no part with peace and international cooperation. Apparently some in the military even considered the movie to be pro Communist, and in the days of the Red Scare, that was a big issue.

The Virginia National Guard apparently didn't have any qualms about participating, though.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Battleship will either be epic, or epically horrible.

First time I saw the preveiw, I was at the movies with a navy guy. His responce was very... negitive. 

Mecha style alians vs. US Navy? I have a feeling it's not going to be all that great, but pretty explosions might be fun to watch.

The Navy has had a lot of film time, moreso then the other branches when it comes to participating. They seem to like being on the big screen.

[AJ Dual]

First time I saw the preveiw, I was at the movies with a navy guy. His responce was very... negitive. 

Mecha style alians vs. US Navy? I have a feeling it's not going to be all that great, but pretty explosions might be fun to watch.

The Navy has had a lot of film time, moreso then the other branches when it comes to participating. They seem to like being on the big screen.

Well, as execrable as the entire premise seems to be, assuming the aliens aren't hiding behind an entire asteroid, or under several hundred feet of rock, and are sitting on Earth with you, and not moving about at supersonic/hypersonic velocities, and they're not made out of exotic matter not found on the Periodic Table... well there probably isn't a whole hell of a lot that will stand up to a direct hit from a 16" naval shell without at least getting some sort of a hole poked in it.  I suspect even the wackiest ideas involving ships or alien structures foot-thick diamond armor and depleted Uranium would get it's bell seriously rung by such a hit.

In Harry Turtledove's 'World War' alt history SF series, where a rather plodding and careful alien race, that has roughly American 21st Century .mil tech, + slow interstellar travel, invades Earth right during the Battle of Britain. They had surveyed Earth in 1400 AD, and weren't expecting any changes, and had the nasty surprise of finding us on the verge of nuclear power, and using tube radios and radars impervious to EMP.

One of the motherships lands in Germany, and one of the Big Bertha Krupps cannon takes aim at it. The aliens are terrified as they confirm dozens of hits by their anti-missile systems, but the radar tracking the incoming fire shows it's not stopping. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

I'm less conserned with improbable and more concerned with plot, aj.

As far as i'm concerned, if you get to hung up on "reality" when watching (or reading) scifi, you are compleatly missing the point.

Alians hiding in the Ocean, BTDT. Alians being fought with modern military equitment, BTDT. I could keep going, but it gets pretty redundent.

They've picked a plot that has been very well done in the past, and, with the mecha angle, done very recently.

So, yeah, IMHO, it's going to be boring.

[AJ Dual]

I'm less conserned with improbable and more concerned with plot, aj.

As far as i'm concerned, if you get to hung up on "reality" when watching (or reading) scifi, you are compleatly missing the point.

Alians hiding in the Ocean, BTDT. Alians being fought with modern military equitment, BTDT. I could keep going, but it gets pretty redundent.

They've picked a plot that has been very well done in the past, and, with the mecha angle, done very recently.

So, yeah, IMHO, it's going to be boring.

Indeed.

All symptoms of a Hollywood system where movies must be pitched to a board of executives who are concerned with the bottom line to the point that I'm pretty sure movies get pitched based on their similarity to other films. "Transformers has consistently gathered X% of the summer box office take, And Battle: L.A. with it's "aliens in the ocean" got Y%...  so with similar robots, the ocean, and Michael Bay explosions, we should be able to gather Z Million dollars too..."

Or of course, if it's not that blatantly derivative, then the film is based on some other prior intellectual property, a film that's now a re-make candidate when the original earned Y, or cartoon, TV show, or comic book earned Z over it's prior run twenty years earlier.

Bleah. 

I figure the "narrowcasting" of services like Netflix etc. and the net will eventually tear that system down, I hope... While summer popcorn blockbuster records, and the big Multiplexes getting creative with stuff like stadium seating, and premium food might be reversing the movie industry's slide, I'll wager the bump (if it exists, maybe I'm wrong) is only temporary.

Although, the other extreme, guys like Lucas who've got so much money they can finance their own films now and are completely independent and beholden to no one... they haven't exactly produced stellar results (cough... Jar Jar Binks) either.

[brimic]

Battleship will either be epic, or epically horrible

I think I saw that movie already- it was called "Battle for Los Angeles" and it was epically horrible.

[erictank]

Ayep. The Avengers saved the day, not the US military. US military had... maybe five seconds of screen time?  And needed five civilians to save the day, because the military couldn't hack it.

No surprise, and honestly, can't blame the military for saying "meh".  Battleship will either be epic, or epically horrible.

Epic, BECAUSE it's so epically horrible.

I actually can't wait.

Well, as execrable as the entire premise seems to be, assuming the aliens aren't hiding behind an entire asteroid, or under several hundred feet of rock, and are sitting on Earth with you, and not moving about at supersonic/hypersonic velocities, and they're not made out of exotic matter not found on the Periodic Table... well there probably isn't a whole hell of a lot that will stand up to a direct hit from a 16" naval shell without at least getting some sort of a hole poked in it.  I suspect even the wackiest ideas involving ships or alien structures foot-thick diamond armor and depleted Uranium would get it's bell seriously rung by such a hit.

In Harry Turtledove's 'World War' alt history SF series, where a rather plodding and careful alien race, that has roughly American 21st Century .mil tech, + slow interstellar travel, invades Earth right during the Battle of Britain. They had surveyed Earth in 1400 AD, and weren't expecting any changes, and had the nasty surprise of finding us on the verge of nuclear power, and using tube radios and radars impervious to EMP.

One of the motherships lands in Germany, and one of the Big Bertha Krupps cannon takes aim at it. The aliens are terrified as they confirm dozens of hits by their anti-missile systems, but the radar tracking the incoming fire shows it's not stopping. 

Loved that series. The notion of aliens with atomic powered spacecraft being stymied because they showed up expecting knights on horses rather than tanks, automatic service rifles, (heavily) armed naval vessels (since they themselves came from a very dry world), and jet aircraft is just... neat.  And Turtledove hasa gift, IMO, of taking a look at history, changing one thing, and saying, "Okay, so what ELSE would be different?"

His Civil War/post-CW (where the South won - how did the USA and CSA develop over the years into the early/mid-20th Century?) series was also good.

[AJ Dual]

I think I learned more about the actual WW II from those books by comparing where he changed the destinies of notable people and events, than actual history books.

[Fitz]

They have a problem endorsing it because the US military is subordinate to a multinational non-military organization in Avengers.

Is it really that hard to understand why they'd have a problem endorsing that?

[T.O.M.]

They have a problem endorsing it because the US military is subordinate to a multinational non-military organization in Avengers.

Is it really that hard to understand why they'd have a problem endorsing that?

Well, according to some things I've seen on-line, they already are subordinate to the boys in the light blue helmets anyways...   

I haven't seen the film yet, and haven't read a comic book in about 30 years, but from what I get from my sons, the S.H.I.E.L.D. group is supposed to have nothing to do with the U.S. military.

Frankly, the real reason I found it amusing is that someone actually sat down and thought about the role of a fictional organization as it relates to the U.S. military, while collecting a nice paycheck.  Imagine the research he'd have to do...reading comic books and scripts all day, meeting with Hollywood producres, directors, and probably a lot of actors.  Wonder how I get my name on the list for that job?  gotta be better than spending all day dealing with the criminals they keep dragging in to court.   

[Hawkmoon]

Back in the 1950s, when RKO was making The Day the Earth Stood Still, a pro forma request went in to the DoD for military participation in that movie.

The request was refused, in large part because the movie was seen as being too conciliatory and world peace and world government oriented, and the military at that time wanted no part with peace and international cooperation. Apparently some in the military even considered the movie to be pro Communist, and in the days of the Red Scare, that was a big issue.

The Virginia National Guard apparently didn't have any qualms about participating, though.

Many thanks for the kewl factoid. TDTESS (the 1950s, Michael Rennie version) is one of my favorite movies. I had not heard or read anything about the political maneuvering over the extras. I guess I just assumed the studio rented a bunch jeeps and uniforms.

[K Frame]

I think they wanted the military primarily for the heavy vehicles. Why pay when you can get Uncle Sam to participate for free?

[Hawkmoon]

I think they wanted the military primarily for the heavy vehicles. Why pay when you can get Uncle Sam to participate for free?

Technically, in 1950 (or 1951) the Virginia National Guard wasn't Federalized, so they weren't Uncle Sam. One might wonder if the State of Virginia (or is Virginia a commonwealth?) provided all the men and gear for free or if the film makers at least covered expenses.

That said -- I wonder what it cost to drive the Missouri out to sea for a day of fun in the sun.