My PC is dead

[mtnbkr]

Yeah, I know, white people problems...

I got up Friday morning, poured a cup of joe, and sat down to check my email.  Moving the mouse didn't bring up my desktop, then I noticed the front panel lights were out. 

No attempts to boot it were successful, it doesn't even spin up the fans.  I removed the power, tried the internal reset button, and such.  An email to the Mobo vendor (computer is a Shuttle XPC) results in some detailed troubleshooting steps, but I'm afraid she's dead Jim.

Thankfully I have scripts that run at 10pm to back up data from the primary drive to the 2nd drive (I was on the PC at 11pm, so I know the script ran before it died).  I also have Carbonite providing offsite backup.  Data loss will be minimal and mostly limited to some bookmarks (been a few months since I backed that up).

This PC has worked so well and has been so trouble-free, it doesn't seem like it's 2.5 years old.  It has never crashed or given me a moment's trouble.   What really blows is that tech has moved forward so much, the only parts I'll be able to reuse are the drives. I built it with an Intel Core 2 Quad 2.5ghz and 8gig of DDR2/800mhz memory.  Finding compatible motherboards that also have HDMI video interfaces isn't that easy.  I did find a bargain barebones kit (less than $100) that will use the CPU, a drive, and half the memory, but uses VGA.  I may use that to build a PC for the kids.

How are the AMD Phenom II CPUs?  I found a fairly inexpensive barebones kit that has a 6-core 2.7ghz AMD Phenom II CPU, 8gig DDR3 RAM, 2tb drive, 500watt PSU, case, mobo, etc.  That will provide a nice upgrade to my current box (and allow for a mega vid card, something my current system didn't).  It also supports various RAID levels, so I may pick up a 2nd 2TB drive and mirror the primary (or several and set up RAID 10).

Chris

[lee n. field]

This PC has worked so well and has been so trouble-free, it doesn't seem like it's 2.5 years old. 

Seems to me that a "trouble free" PC should last a lot longer than 2.5 years.

[K Frame]

Well crap, that just sucks.

I was worried about mine yesterday. A series of hard power pulses for some reason.

I've got a spare netbook I'll sell you for $250.... :)

Oh, and this gives me a lot of confidence in the machine you built for me...

[mtnbkr]

Seems to me that a "trouble free" PC should last a lot longer than 2.5 years.

Agreed, though in that 2.5 years there were no indications of problem.  No flakiness, crashes, etc.  It couldn't have been more reliable.  I was using it at 11:30pm the night before.  It died sometime between 11:30pm and 6:30am with no warning that there was a problem.

Well crap, that just sucks.

I was worried about mine yesterday. A series of hard power pulses for some reason.

I've got a spare netbook I'll sell you for $250.... :)

Oh, and this gives me a lot of confidence in the machine you built for me...

No thanks, I need a real computer.

This was a hardware issue and I used completely different hardware for yours.

Chris

[geronimotwo]

did you try plugging it in?     but seriously, it's not just a power supply or internal power issue? 

[Ben]

Chris - I have the AMD Phenom on a computer I keep at the folks' place. It runs great. It's going on two years old and runs on one of the higher end Asus MBs (can't remember the model). Quite speedy and with 8 gig and a mid range Nvidia GPU, runs "Left for Dead" nearly as good as my "workhorse" machine at home, and also can run a couple of virtual machines (I sometimes VPN and do light telecommuting from there) with zero problems or lag.

I'll likely go AMD on my next big home machine. The only reason I haven't in the past is because a specific scientific software package I use that work let's me put on my home machine for telecommuting was built around Intel CPUs for some of the core multitasking and multithreading tasks it does. That's no longer the case, and I really like AMD for bang for the buck.

I've used RAID 1 on most all the "workhorse" machines I've built over the last 12 years or so, but actually think I'm done with it now. With USB3, external backups are fast and easy, and I really have no need for instant data recovery. It also seems that with current MB and CPU tech, RAID 0 doesn't buy you all that much more speed and/or efficency.

My next machine will have an SSD main drive with larger HD data drive (unless SSD prices drop a lot by then, at which point I would go all SSD). I have a Crucial SSD drive on the little Foxconn nettop "internet surfing" computer I built that I'm typing this on, and it's solid as a rock. I've also been placing SSDs in field computers and data collectors I build for work.


Also, you mentioned that you removed power. Did you actually swap for a known good PS?

[mtnbkr]

did you try plugging it in?     but seriously, it's not just a power supply or internal power issue? 

Problem could be the psu or mobo.  The mobo gets some power because the on-board leds are lit.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Good info Ben.  No I haven't changed the psi because it is proprietary.

Chris

[Ben]

Good info Ben.  No I haven't changed the psi because it is proprietary.

Chris

Ack. Shuttle. I think I remember that now. We had a Shuttle as a nav computer on one of our boats at work and I recall now that it actually had quite a few proprietary features.

[lee n. field]

Problem could be the psu or mobo.  The mobo gets some power because the on-board leds are lit.

Chris

I'd say, try another PS anyway.

Good info Ben.  No I haven't changed the psi because it is proprietary.

One of those shoebox type computers?  Likely the power supply connectors on the board are standard.

[mtnbkr]

Ack. Shuttle. I think I remember that now. We had a Shuttle as a nav computer on one of our boats at work and I recall now that it actually had quite a few proprietary features.

The mobo and PSU are proprietary, but the other components (drives, memory, etc) are all standard.

I'd say, try another PS anyway.

One of those shoebox type computers?  Likely the power supply connectors on the board are standard.

The connections are standard.  If I don't get any love from Shuttle after performing their troubleshooting steps, I'll try another PSU.  First, I need to satisfy their requirements so I can possibly get this replaced under warranty.

Chris

[K Frame]

I think your chair to keyboard interface has screwed up.

Again.

[Perd Hapley]

How are the AMD Phenom II CPUs? 

I've been using once since last fall. It seems to work just fine, but I don't overclock it, or play video games.

[Gewehr98]

Those shuttle cases are tiny, if I remember. Isn't that a whole bunch of CPU to stuff into a tiny case with minimal power supply?

You ain't doing the Dolly Parton thing, putting 50lbs of potatoes in a 10lb bag, are you Chris?

I can only imagine the heat that would be generated in that box from the CPU, memory, and power supply.

I considered a Shuttle for a media PC, but only if I added one of these:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=96&area=en

or perhaps one of the smaller Zalman Reserator models.   

BTW, just because you have LEDs lit doesn't mean the PSU is 100%.  You've got both 5v and 12v rails in there...

[RoadKingLarry]

I think your chair to keyboard interface has screwed up.

Again.

PEBKAC
Problem exists between keyboard and chair.

[mtnbkr]

Those shuttle cases are tiny, if I remember. Isn't that a whole bunch of CPU to stuff into a tiny case with minimal power supply?

They are small, but there's ample space around the CPU and it uses a heat-pipe CPU cooling system.  The reviews I read before buying it didn't indicate any cooling issues.  It has run continuously since I built it 2.5 years ago.  The CPU was a supported model and not overclocked.

You ain't doing the Dolly Parton thing, putting 50lbs of potatoes in a 10lb bag, are you Chris?

Nope, it was a minimal build except for the 4 DIMMs and extra drive.  The drive was set to only spin up under use since it was an archive drive.  I didn't even have a video card, I just used the onboard video. 

I can only imagine the heat that would be generated in that box from the CPU, memory, and power supply.

I checked it frequently the first 6 months after building it.  It was never particularly hot.  It was rock solid, never acted as if it was overheating, never caused any problems.

I considered a Shuttle for a media PC, but only if I added one of these:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=96&area=en

or perhaps one of the smaller Zalman Reserator models.   

I never noticed it running hot.  We keep our house between 70 and 75deg year round and it never had an issue.  For our uses, I think additional cooling would be overkill.  It certainly didn't seem to get warmer than any of the larger systems I've built.

BTW, just because you have LEDs lit doesn't mean the PSU is 100%.  You've got both 5v and 12v rails in there...

Yeah, I forgot about the different rails. BTW, their PSU test failed.  I'm hoping it becomes a warranty issue and I can get a new PSU or mobo or both.

Chris

[RocketMan]

The power supply may not be proprietary.  There are a number of small-weird-looking-but-standard form factor power supplies outside the ATX family.  If it turns out the power supply died, pull it out and look for a data plate or label. You might be pleasantly surprised by finding a replacement supply somewhere.

[mtnbkr]

The power supply may not be proprietary.  There are a number of small-weird-looking-but-standard form factor power supplies outside the ATX family.  If it turns out the power supply died, pull it out and look for a data plate or label. You might be pleasantly surprised by finding a replacement supply somewhere.

Not likely.  I looked some time ago under the same idea in order to get a higher powered PSU (stock one is 300w and I wanted a better video card).  I didn't find anything that was known to fit.  FWIW, Shuttle recently came out with a 500w unit.

Chris

[robear]

I built a shuttle PC for a friend (model SG31G2) in 2008.    It worked pretty good for her for quite a while until she said it would really slow down and then just freeze up and not boot.    She sent it to me and I found 3 domed (swollen) capacitors on the motherboard.     Replaced all 3 of these, and all others of the same type with ones I ordered from Allied Electronics and it has been working good ever since.    I did also upgrade her power supply from a 250W to a 300W, but she is using the on-board video.

Definitely check for domed caps on the motherboard.    It will require a complete teardown to replace them, but that's what worked for me.

Edited to add: checked the dates of when I built it and when it failed because of the caps: about 2.5 years later.

[mtnbkr]

The caps were one of the first things I checked, but unless doming is very subtle, they all look fine.  Also, the PC was running flawlessly less than 8hrs before I discovered it had died.

I'm going to pick up a cheap PSU today and see if that works.  If so, I'll push Shuttle to send me a new one.  Even better if I can get the new 500w model from them. :D

Chris

[K Frame]

Do you get a whiff of anythign fried, cooked, or burned?

In my (very) limited experience, the only time I never got that smell was when the power supply went out on my Mom's computer.

Every other time I've had things go T.U. on computers it gives a very distinct odor of crispy electronic death.

[Perd Hapley]

Every other time I've had things go T.U. on computers it gives a very distinct odor of crispy electronic death.

That burnt-floppy scent, eh?

[mtnbkr]

No, but I've had PSUs die without any smells.  However, they usually caused other problems first.

Chris

[Ben]

No, but I've had PSUs die without any smells.  However, they usually caused other problems first.

Chris

I don't think I've ever had a power supply give notice of its impending death. We had one batch of Dells at work a few years ago that apparently had sub par PSUs. They taught me to make checking the power supply my number one item for any computer that wouldn't start up (well, that and making sure the user hadn't accidentally turned off the surge protector or UPS under their desk with their feet).

[K Frame]

"No, but I've had PSUs die without any smells.  However, they usually caused other problems first."

Chris, that's what I was saying.

No smell to me means PSU.

Smell equals some other component is cooked.