Author Topic: All warrants are now no-knock warrants  (Read 2649 times)

RadioFreeSeaLab

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« on: June 15, 2006, 07:20:55 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotus.search.ap/index.html

Quote
Police don't have to knock, justices say

Alito's vote breaks 4-4 tie in police search case

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that police armed with a warrant can barge into homes and seize evidence even if they don't knock, a huge government victory that was decided by President Bush's new justices.

The 5-4 ruling clearly signals the court's conservative shift following the departure of moderate Sandra Day O'Connor.

The case tested previous court rulings that police armed with warrants generally must knock and announce themselves or they run afoul of the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches.

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, said Detroit police acknowledge violating that rule when they called out their presence at a man's door then went inside three seconds to five seconds later.

"Whether that preliminary misstep had occurred or not, the police would have executed the warrant they had obtained, and would have discovered the gun and drugs inside the house," Scalia wrote.

But suppressing evidence is too high of a penalty, Scalia said, for errors by police in failing to properly announce themselves.

The outcome might have been different if O'Connor were still on the bench. She seemed ready, when the case was first argued in January, to rule in favor of Booker Hudson, whose house was searched in 1998.

O'Connor had worried aloud that officers around the country might start bursting into homes to execute search warrants. She asked: "Is there no policy of protecting the home owner a little bit and the sanctity of the home from this immediate entry?"

She retired before the case was decided, and a new argument was held so that Justice Samuel Alito could participate in deliberations. Alito and Bush's other Supreme Court pick, Chief Justice John Roberts, both supported Scalia's opinion.

Hudson's lawyers argued that evidence against him was connected to the improper search and could not be used against him.

Scalia said that a victory for Hudson would have given "a get-out-of-jail-free card" to him and others.

In a dissent, four justices complained that the decision erases more than 90 years of Supreme Court precedent.

"It weakens, perhaps destroys, much of the practical value of the Constitution's knock-and-announce protection," Justice Stephen Breyer wrote for himself and the three other liberal members.

Breyer said that police will feel free to enter homes without knocking and waiting a short time if they know that there is no punishment for it.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, a moderate, joined the conservatives in most of the ruling. He wrote his own opinion, however, to say "it bears repeating that it is a serious matter if law enforcement officers violate the sanctity of the home by ignoring the requisites of lawful entry."

charby

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2006, 07:34:09 AM »
Well I hope when the police knock down the wrong door, get greeted by a surprised armed home owner and a few police get shot and homeowner is wrongfully killed by the police that this decision will be reversed.

-C
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2006, 07:38:38 AM »
Quote from: charby
Well I hope when the police knock down the wrong door, get greated by a surprised armed home owner and a few police get shot and homeowner is wrongfully killed by the police that this decision will be reversed.

-C
Not likely.  What's more likely, is that police will knock down the wrong door, home owner will shoot one or two, then be killed himself.  Then the government will scream for more restrictions on private firearms ownership.  Probably something like they have in D.C.  No handguns, and longguns must be stored disassembled and locked up.

charby

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2006, 08:11:15 AM »
Quote from: dasmi
Not likely.  What's more likely, is that police will knock down the wrong door, home owner will shoot one or two, then be killed himself.  Then the government will scream for more restrictions on private firearms ownership.  Probably something like they have in D.C.  No handguns, and longguns must be stored disassembled and locked up.
Yeah your right. I just want to know why the liberals of the country are standing for the leadership that they have. I know a lot of liberal people that are great people with great ideas and aren't half as bad as the liberal leadership. It like the sickos took over and no one cared.

Sometimes, its almost like you feel you have to apologize for owning guns, believing in some form of religion and being Caucasian with an education.

/rant
-C
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2006, 08:13:18 AM »
Quote from: charby
Sometimes it almost like you feel have to apologize for owning guns, believing in some form of religion and being Caucasian with an education.
Of course, everything is your fault!

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2006, 09:16:22 AM »
Guys, stop crying so much. The safety of agents of the state completely and totally trumps the freedom of it's citizenry. We wouldnt want to have the possibility that the people could ever place any threat of force against the government, now would we?

Dannyboy

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 09:48:41 AM »
So, uh, weren't we told we should vote for Bush because he'll appoint the right type of person to the Supreme Court?  
Cops nationwide must be drooling over this ruling.
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InfidelSerf

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2006, 10:51:30 AM »
I found this the quite disturbing...
Quote
The 5-4 ruling clearly signals the court's conservative shift following the departure of moderate Sandra Day O'Connor.
Clearly??   Conservative shift??

Am I the only one that finds that statement misleading, flawed, and downright disturbing?

It sounds like pure propaganda to try and lump such a decision into a conservative catagory.
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Werewolf

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2006, 11:44:05 AM »
Someone once asked me why I went about armed. I answered "because I'm a citizen, not a subject".

I'm not so sure about that anymore.
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Standing Wolf

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2006, 02:29:39 PM »
Quote
The 5-4 ruling clearly signals the court's conservative shift...
That's not a conservative shift. That's another shift toward tyranny.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

stevelyn

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2006, 02:37:55 PM »
[sarcasim]Vote for Bush. It's important that he appoint SC justices, otherwise we're dooooooomed.[/sarcasim] :barf:

So we've traded socialist tyranny for facsist tyranny. Kinda hard to see the difference when you're looking down a govt owned gun barrel in either case.rolleyes

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Antibubba

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2006, 05:25:20 PM »
Think how much worse the decision would be if it hadn't been the strict Constitutionalists who pushed it through!  Why, if we'd left the Court in the hands of those "Innocent til proven guilty" pansies, the terrorists would win!!

I'll bet there will be a big party at BATFE this weekend.
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RevDisk

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2006, 05:42:56 PM »
Normally I'm not a rabid cop basher.   But I did get a serious chill running down my spine when I heard of this ruling.   No one should be handed the power of walking into another person's house at will.  From what I understood, "no knock", "dynamic entry", whatever warrants were allegedly a lot harder to get than a regular warrant.  If I read this correctly, any warrant can now serve as a no knock.

One step closer.

Lot more folks are gonna die because of typo's on warrants.  Wrong addresses, etc.   Happens too often already.  With this?  Ugh
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The Rabbi

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2006, 05:58:16 PM »
Oh, please.  Grow up.
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Sindawe

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2006, 05:59:03 PM »
:barf:  Not that I'm suprised at this.

I REALLY need to upgrade my front door and frame to something breaching resistant and get some shatter resistant windows on the first floor. I guess the hardwood floors will just to wait.  *SIGH*
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Otherguy Overby

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2006, 06:00:53 PM »
More and more I find I'm sitting out in the woods near my country house, often at the normal hours of "raids."

Am I paranoid, or a wise man?

Is it okay to shoot home invaders in the back in Arkansas?

What if they are cops with a questionable warrant?
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Tallpine

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2006, 06:12:26 AM »
"If I read this correctly, any warrant can now serve as a no knock."

That what I get out of it... Sad


I dunno ... wouldn't it be a lot simpler if the cops would just call in an airstrike on the "scumbags" house ?
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charby

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2006, 06:32:16 AM »
Quote from: Tallpine
I dunno ... wouldn't it be a lot simpler if the cops would just call in an airstrike on the "scumbags" house ?
Ok as you can read from my early remarks I'm not a big fan of all warrants being allowed to be no knock, but when they get the house right...

I think they should set fire to the house when there is an armed standoff, either way the crooks give up because the house is burning or they die in the fire.  Win Win situation if you ask me.

Maybe set up a high pressure water jet on a long remote controlled boom and let the house have it. 6000 psi will cut through just about everything a house is made of. Water doesn't hurt anybody afterwards, house might be in a heap after being cut apart, but oh well they were shooting at the police.

I know this doesn't work in every situation, but could be one of those last resorts.

-C
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garrettwc

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2006, 07:26:31 AM »
Quote
I think they should set fire to the house when there is an armed standoff, either way the crooks give up because the house is burning or they die in the fire.  Win Win situation if you ask me.
You mean like in Waco?

RadioFreeSeaLab

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2006, 07:35:32 AM »
Yeah, just like Waco.  A shining example of Government force.

charby

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2006, 07:48:40 AM »
Quote from: dasmi
Yeah, just like Waco.  A shining example of Government force.
Geez one bad move by the Gov and use of fire and you have to rain on my parade.

Ok so plan b..  cut the house apart with high pressure water jet.

-C
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Dannyboy

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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2006, 09:02:11 AM »
This gem came from Scalia's opinion.
Another development over the past half-century that deters civil-rights violations is the increasing professionalism of police forces, including a new emphasis on internal police discipline. Even as long ago as 1989 we felt it proper to "assume" that unlawful police behavior "would be dealt with appropriately" by the authorities, but we now have increasing evidence that police forces across the United States take the constitutional rights of citizens seriously. There have been "wide ranging reforms in the education, training, and supervision" of police officers (cite omitted).

[...]

Moreover, modern police forces are staffed with professionals; it is not credible to assert that internal discipline, which can limit successful careers, will not have a deterrent effect. There is also evidence that the increasing use of various forms of citizen review can enhance police accountability.

I would love to know what world this guy lives in.  This came from Balko's site.
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All warrants are now no-knock warrants
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2006, 10:41:20 AM »
For anyone not getting his news from CNN, the Journal's piece about it this AM was a little more informative.
No-knock warrants are illegal.  They were illegal before this decision and remain so.  The issue was the exclusionary rule.  Could violating the no-knock rule result in excluding evidence thus obtained?  The answer here is no, and that was the crux of the case.  Anyone being served with a no-knock warrant has the option to bring suit against the agency serving it for violating the law.  This is what the case is about.
But every time we get one of these people here moan about the coming police state.  It isnt happening.  We are a long long way from it.
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cordex

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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2006, 11:12:06 AM »
Quote
It sounds like pure propaganda to try and lump such a decision into a conservative catagory.
Not really.

I mean, sure, it serves that purpose as well, but I'd argue that the fact that the majority of the national "conservative" leadership supports this kind of thing makes it pretty accurate as well as good anti-"conservative" propaganda material.

cordex

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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2006, 11:33:09 AM »
Quote
Anyone being served with a no-knock warrant has the option to bring suit against the agency serving it for violating the law.
I'm not sure that is accurate.  Do you know of any cases in which someone won a suit (not based on the exclusionary rule) against an agency for failing to announce before serving a warrant?

I don't care for the exclusionary rule.  It makes it harder for the good guys to catch the bad guys.  Unfortunately, I think that without it (and that is the direction we're headed) there is very little incentive for the good guys to follow the rules.